Buying a small yacht

I basically gave away my Albin Vega,still was operative for coastal cruising but probalt every detail of its construction had small problems.To bring
it back to how it was when new would take a good year somewhere undercover.Then new engine,sails rigging ,standing rigging,anchour chain etc,etc.I could have put a low price n it and had all the hassle of trying to sell it plus storage fees etc but I had a keen friend who took her on.
 
I've been thinking about this a fair bit. If I had a plan to go extended sailing in a few years and I hadn't sailed before and neither had my wife, I would be careful about the first boat I bought.

I wouldn't want anything small, grubby or smelly. An awful lot of cheap boats are at least 2 of those. Like most on here, also, having sailed for a few decades i've sort of got used to the idea that boats cost a fair chunk of money. I know you can do it cheaply with a swinging mooring and making do, but for most of us a marina berth will cost several K and maintance also a fair bit. Just lifting out is a couple of hundred quid at many yards.

If I wanted to get a taste of what sailing is really like for a potential lifestyle change I would want a boat that my wife and I would be happy to spend a weekend or a week away on. One that I would be happy to cross the channel in. I would want to spend at least 10k even in today's market. Possibly up to 20k.

The other thing I would say is that sitting in a cramped wet boat in a rainy south coast harbour can deflate even the best sailing dreams. So I would be a bit sneaky about how I went about this.

I would book a weeks charter holiday in somewhere stunning like Croatia and sell my wif ethe dream. Then I would get a decent boat and take her out on nice days.

All this is academic for me. My wife has always hated sailing and that has it advantages.
 
moondancer2 said:
I've been thinking about this a fair bit. If I had a plan to go extended sailing in a few years and I hadn't sailed before and neither had my wife, I would be careful about the first boat I bought.

I wouldn't want anything small, grubby or smelly. An awful lot of cheap boats are at least 2 of those. Like most on here, also, having sailed for a few decades i've sort of got used to the idea that boats cost a fair chunk of money. I know you can do it cheaply with a swinging mooring and making do, but for most of us a marina berth will cost several K and maintance also a fair bit. Just lifting out is a couple of hundred quid at many yards.

If I wanted to get a taste of what sailing is really like for a potential lifestyle change I would want a boat that my wife and I would be happy to spend a weekend or a week away on. One that I would be happy to cross the channel in. I would want to spend at least 10k even in today's market. Possibly up to 20k.

The other thing I would say is that sitting in a cramped wet boat in a rainy south coast harbour can deflate even the best sailing dreams. So I would be a bit sneaky about how I went about this.

I would book a weeks charter holiday in somewhere stunning like Croatia and sell my wif ethe dream. Then I would get a decent boat and take her out on nice days.

All this is academic for me. My wife has always hated sailing and that has it advantages.
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Define 'small' All boats are by definition small... unless you've invested in a 50ftr cat and even then...
 
Praxinoscope said:
The Achilles 24 Triple keel doesn't do too badly, but in general I would agree with you.
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I tried to find an Achilles 24 Bilge/Fin with an outboard. I sailed one in the 1970's The only one which was up for sale near me had an inboard diesel which they could not get to run, whereas you can buy a replacement outboard for peanuts (in comparison)
 
LadyInBed said:
My advice is contrary to the way I did it! I had a 22 footer for 16 years and exhausted what I thought was a reasonable cruising ground for that size of boat - UK S coast, CI's, N Brittany and two circular trips through the French canals to the Med and back. Then moving to a 33 footer to tackle Biscay, Spain and Portugal. 33 footers handle totally differently to 22-24 footers that you can push around an man handle. When I bought my 33 footer (I've had it for 20 years now) it took me three or four years, maybe even five to fit it the way that I wanted it - electronics, inner fore-stay, sails with deeper reefing points and full battens, charging systems, etc.
As you are a comparative 'late starter' I would advise you to go straight to the size of boat that you want to end up with and spend the money that you waste on a small boat fitting out the boat you want to live on. You will still get the boat handling and maintenance experience but it will be on a single learning curve not two. If you have to take out a short term Marine Mortgage (do they still exist?) then do it, I understand from my kids that borrowing money is cheap these days! :whistle:
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Thanks


Yes thats been through our minds

I dont think we'd want a marine mortgage.
In 2 years we can pay cash.
Do we pay 30k for a 33+ ft Moody
Or 50k for a newer 40ft Bavaria

Trial boat might help us decide.

It is a finely balanced dilemma

A small, perfectly formed lottery win would resolve it ?
 
GrantD said:
Thanks


Yes thats been through our minds

I dont think we'd want a marine mortgage.
In 2 years we can pay cash.
Do we pay 30k for a 33+ ft Moody
Or 50k for a newer 40ft Bavaria

Trial boat might help us decide.

It is a finely balanced dilemma

A small, perfectly formed lottery win would resolve it ?
Click to expand...
You need to go and sail the boats you are considering not a completely different class of boat.

I have a Twister. 28 ft and she is small. I bought her for singlehanded sailing. When my family or friends want to go sailing we charter a modern 30-40 ft boat. It is a completely different experience.
 
convey said:
In all fairness, there's more to the reason why Newbridges don't saill well than its number of keels. It's like putting a young collie against an elderly bulldog in a race together.

I'll go against the grain here and say that's a very nicely taken care of Trident and they're not bad boats at all. They have a very strong keel set up that doesn't splay like some Centaurs did. Probably more "sailorly" then a Centaur, it's classic in the sense that it's of the generation of GRP boats designed like wooden ones. I think most Centaurs of a similar age will be shagged out and not taken care of, so it's worth much more than £1,500.

In a sense, it underlines the dilemma of small boat ownership. Assuming those are this years photos, and not ones taken 4 years ago when it was just finished, that is a rare, properly taken care of boat, with a price that reflects it. Obviously, you'd want to try and knock a Grand off it at least. The question then is, do you really want a Trident and are you willing to pay full price for one. True, ones not taken care of do sink down towards the £1,000 mark. The other is, does he really want to sell it (as it is a buyer's market).

People then get caught in the trap of, "but what else could I buy for the money?" generally prioritising length as the most important feature, as in "more for your money". I'd prioritise condition (but then I'm not trying to fit a family of 5 in). Smaller interiors also have their own advantages.

It reads like everything that needs to be taken care of has and to a high standard which would make it cheaper than a tired Centaur at half its price with the legacy of whatever conditon its engine is in. And, remember, what you're really spending money for is to go sailing now, rather than to go repairing. I'd take that over most Centaurs on the market from £1,500 to £4,000. How much would you be prepared to spend (lose) on going on a month's holiday? I'd consider being prepared to "lose" that on a boat you can just immediately go sailing in.

I don't know how much they sell for, but the equivalently maintained Centaurs I've see are advertised in the £5,500 to £7,000 bracket. (And it's generally considered they were over-engined, the legend is they got a special deal from Volvo, hence the big engines).

Last final caveat, all through all that well oiled/varnished wood looks attractive now, it's also an invitation to have to do lots of maintenance. I think it's sad that boats don't sell for what they are really worth, as it encourages buyers who can't afford and are not inclinded to look after them. Even if as a buyer it can be thrilling.

I'd be thinking about what experience you are after (type of boat) and be prepared to pay over the odds to get a really good one. Ultimately, you are throwing the money away whatever you buy, so make it worthwhile. A couple of weeks in a beautiful mooring are worth far much more than 6 months scrubbing on hard standing.
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Convey

A lot of that clicks with my thinking.

We can afford to "lose" a grand on it if it gives us a 2 good years. Just parked in Rye as a weekend bolthole for the Blues festival it will have some value.

Is it a buyers market? I'm getting mixed signals.
 
May I also take a moment to thank EVERYONE who has contributed so far. Its a big help and I really do appreciate ALL the varied input.

Keep it coming ?
 
GrantD said:
I dont think we'd want a marine mortgage.
In 2 years we can pay cash.
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I quite agree, I wouldn't want to borrow I've just looked at short term loans and this is an example of what came up:
The Representative rate is 3% APR (fixed) so if you borrow £10,000 over 3 years at a rate of 3% p.a (fixed) you will repay £291.65 per month & £10,499.43 in total.
So at a guess, in two years the cost will be similar about 500 for 10k or 2k for 40k, thats getting on for what you are thinking of spending on a starter boat.
I still think that going straight to your Live Aboard is a better idea. If you can't fund it for two years then another route is to crew for others and / or to charter.
 
LadyInBed said:
I quite agree, I wouldn't want to borrow I've just looked at short term loans and this is an example of what came up:
The Representative rate is 3% APR (fixed) so if you borrow £10,000 over 3 years at a rate of 3% p.a (fixed) you will repay £291.65 per month & £10,499.43 in total.
So at a guess, in two years the cost will be similar about 500 for 10k or 2k for 40k, thats getting on for what you are thinking of spending on a starter boat.
I still think that going straight to your Live Aboard is a better idea. If you can't fund it for two years then another route is to crew for others and / or to charter.
Click to expand...
Food for thought.

Another option is phased retirement which gets me enough of my lump sum to buy

All a nice dilemma I guess.
 
moondancer2 said:
I've been thinking about this a fair bit. If I had a plan to go extended sailing in a few years and I hadn't sailed before and neither had my wife, I would be careful about the first boat I bought.

I wouldn't want anything small, grubby or smelly. An awful lot of cheap boats are at least 2 of those. Like most on here, also, having sailed for a few decades i've sort of got used to the idea that boats cost a fair chunk of money. I know you can do it cheaply with a swinging mooring and making do, but for most of us a marina berth will cost several K and maintance also a fair bit. Just lifting out is a couple of hundred quid at many yards.

If I wanted to get a taste of what sailing is really like for a potential lifestyle change I would want a boat that my wife and I would be happy to spend a weekend or a week away on. One that I would be happy to cross the channel in. I would want to spend at least 10k even in today's market. Possibly up to 20k.

The other thing I would say is that sitting in a cramped wet boat in a rainy south coast harbour can deflate even the best sailing dreams. So I would be a bit sneaky about how I went about this.

I would book a weeks charter holiday in somewhere stunning like Croatia and sell my wif ethe dream. Then I would get a decent boat and take her out on nice days.

All this is academic for me. My wife has always hated sailing and that has it advantages.
Click to expand...
Ive said something similar to Bekki

Her dream was Barge life, I nudged her to a 2 part plan which got us on a yacht first then Barges when we are fading.

She loves "tiny living" so it wasn't hard, safety confidence was her red line and she knows me well enough now to know we will do it thoughtfully

But I said if we buy something with no heating and no heads that drips on us in the night and smells it will put you off, lets get 29ft........

She reassured me that size does not matter.
But back to the boat..... ?

We saw one that was ratty, it was a no. I'm increasingly convinced that clean, tidy, warm(ish) safe and with a reliable engine is vital.
I would prefer something like the Leisure 27 above for space but finding one at our current budget ......
 
You might want to look at a small hunter legend if comfort is important on a newer boat with bilge keels . The finish isn’t to everyoneS taste but they have the bilge version around the 30ft level and enough space for 2 adults and two non teen children and are newer than your moody no doubt. Active owners Club for legends as well
 
One thing that might work for both of you is taking a yacht through the french canals to the south of France. You get barge life and exposure to yacht life. Have a look at the recent videos called 'sailing magic carpet' on YouTube. A young couple currently heading north through France. Their earlier videos show a year or two in the med.

I think a lot of people who set off around the world end up just sticking to the med. Warm climate. Shorter sails. Interesting anchorages.
 
ashtead said:
You might want to look at a small hunter legend if comfort is important on a newer boat with bilge keels . The finish isn’t to everyoneS taste but they have the bilge version around the 30ft level and enough space for 2 adults and two non teen children and are newer than your moody no doubt. Active owners Club for legends as well
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Good shout, have been looking at them. I do like Hunters
 
moondancer2 said:
One thing that might work for both of you is taking a yacht through the french canals to the south of France. You get barge life and exposure to yacht life. Have a look at the recent videos called 'sailing magic carpet' on YouTube. A young couple currently heading north through France. Their earlier videos show a year or two in the med.

I think a lot of people who set off around the world end up just sticking to the med. Warm climate. Shorter sails. Interesting anchorages.
Click to expand...
Yes we have watched carpet.

And RubyRose going through them

French canals are a definite, its another reason bilge keel Moodys with modest draughts appeal

Our favourite sailing channel is Fair Isle Sailing, ex BBC middle aged couple, not hot young Aussies on a dream boat ?

Sailing Florence is good too

I will need to keep a handle on my desire to achieve (I'm in the Guinness BOWR) but going round the world is something I will be reluctant to abandon. ?

Though its obvious you could spend a useful lifetime just exploring Scotland ?

Norwegian fjords ?

Iceland ?

Santorini ?
 
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