Buying a non vat paid boat in Europe

[duncan99210]

As I understand things, HMRC assign a value to the boat, usually based on a 'book' valuation. This would be a reasonable approximation to its current market value, nothing to do with the price you actually paid for it, as that is so easy to fudge. You can discuss the valuation with them and they may listen to arguements about current value - eg very poor condition, needing work, therefore lower value.

 

[Tranona]

As I understand things, HMRC assign a value to the boat, usually based on a 'book' valuation. This would be a reasonable approximation to its current market value, nothing to do with the price you actually paid for it, as that is so easy to fudge. You can discuss the valuation with them and they may listen to arguements about current value - eg very poor condition, needing work, therefore lower value.

Not quite right. The rules are purchase price or valuation. If you recently purchased the boat then they would accept that as market price. If you had spent sums of money, say on a refit before importing it they would want to add that expenditure to the purchase price. A valuation would be subject to negotiation and would probably involve you in presenting evidence such as a survey and valuation to support the amount. They are not stupid and would have a pretty good idea of what is a reasonable value in the absence of a recent monetary transaction

 

[viago]

why not sail or motor direct to gibralter. i think they have a vat exemption thingy. a taster for the rest of your voyage.
just a thought.

 

[lovezoo]

Gibraltar is part of the EU though, so that presumably wouldn't work.

 

[Tranona]

Gibraltar is part of the EU though, so that presumably wouldn't work.

Like the Canaries, Gibraltar is part of the EU, but not the VAT area.

The OP can sail the boat from its existing location in the CI witout paying VAT - his question is whether he can stop anywhere (France/Spain/Portugal) on the way to the Canaries.

 

[chinita]

He can sail where he likes.

In ten years sailing around the Med and Portugal, on three yachts, I have never been asked for any VAT documentation.

Nor have I met anybody who has.

The real risk, IMO, is not having to pay VAT in a port of entry but any fine which may be applied for non-declaration of VAT status.

I am not sure if this is a real risk as, the moment I was asked for proof of VAT payment I would claim that I had entered the port for the sole purpose of paying and would they kindly direct me to the appropriate office.

It is therefore, again IMO, a matter for how risk averse the OP is.

 

[Tranona]

He can sail where he likes.

In ten years sailing around the Med and Portugal, on three yachts, I have never been asked for any VAT documentation.

Nor have I met anybody who has.

The real risk, IMO, is not having to pay VAT in a port of entry but any fine which may be applied for non-declaration of VAT status.

I am not sure if this is a real risk as, the moment I was asked for proof of VAT payment I would claim that I had entered the port for the sole purpose of paying and would they kindly direct me to the appropriate office.

It is therefore, again IMO, a matter for how risk averse the OP is.

What you have experienced reflects what happens when a boat is "obviously EU" - that is everything about it suggests VAT has been paid - registration, BofS, skipper, log of movements etc. What will trigger interest is anything that suggests otherwise, such as CI registration, BofS from CI etc.

Suspect it would be a small risk that any official in a stopover port would pick it up if for example the boat was on the SSR and the skipper a UK rsident - but you never know and it could be a bit of a b****r to your plans!

 

[temptress]

I suggest that you need to talk to a tax accountant who specialises in VAT, so that you can avoid an unpleasant visit from the customs as you head south. He will be able to advise you as to your liability for VAT on the boat when it enters EU waters. There may be a work round that will enable you to escape paying VAT but you need an expert to be sure.

I second that.

 

[lovezoo]

Like the Canaries, Gibraltar is part of the EU, but not the VAT area.

I have a Gibraltar Limited company with a GB vat number. Genuine question; how does that work if Gib is not in the VAT area?

 

[walterdubb]

What you have experienced reflects what happens when a boat is "obviously EU" - that is everything about it suggests VAT has been paid - registration, BofS, skipper, log of movements etc. What will trigger interest is anything that suggests otherwise, such as CI registration, BofS from CI etc.

Suspect it would be a small risk that any official in a stopover port would pick it up if for example the boat was on the SSR and the skipper a UK rsident - but you never know and it could be a bit of a b****r to your plans!

I have spoken to the Registra in Jersey about the Tempory Inportation Scheme and cannot use it because one of the crireria for qualification is non EU residency.

I have friends from Jersey who sailed their non vat paid Jersey registered boat from Jersey to Join the ARC and they were continually approached by customs about their vat status and oftenhad trouble getting away without being forced to pay the VAT especially in Portugal. Clearly a Jersy flag and Jersey port of registration was a magnet.

I agree that with a uk registration you would be unlucky to be approached and I'd probably risk it if we were just popping in to ports on the way to the CI. But want to make this passage this summer and leave the boat for a month or two - returning in November for the crossing. I think this makes it more risky.

It would seem that anyone outside the EU wishing to sell a non vat paid boat to an EU resident is confined to buyers who are prepared to pay the VAT. Or sell to another non EU resident and use the TI Scheme.

 

[Tranona]

I have a Gibraltar Limited company with a GB vat number. Genuine question; how does that work if Gib is not in the VAT area?

Can't really helpo you there. There is no VAT in Gibraltar, nor is it part of the EU VAT area. Suggest you ask your accountant what the number is for.

 

[lovezoo]

It's a VAT number, just like any other. Without it we would not be able to get goods manufactured in Austria and shipped to other EU states without incurring VAT. My question was how is that possible if Gib is not in the EU VAT area?

 

[Tranona]

It's a VAT number, just like any other. Without it we would not be able to get goods manufactured in Austria and shipped to other EU states without incurring VAT. My question was how is that possible if Gib is not in the EU VAT area?

Your question is best addressed to your accountant. I think I know the answer, but it is better you get it from somebody qualified so there is no misunderstanding.

 

[lovezoo]

I don't need to know the answer, I just know that it works, if not Gibraltar would not be a viable place to do business.

 

[the lloyds]

VAT

We had a similar issue

Bought a boat in Turkey[actually took it back from Sunsail ownership scheme]. Sailed it to UK

We registered it on SSR on purchase[before actually by mistake!]

Aware it was liable for VAt on first hitting EU we put large sum of money in current account. Sailed to Crete, question not asked , so did not volunteer. After that went to Malta where we overwintered, again not mentioned, Sardinia, Balearics, Spain, Gibralter, Portugal, Spain Uk

Paperwork filled out in each place but I think when they see you have come from EU place [after first time] they are not focussing on VAT

Arrived UK

We then contacted VAt people. Expected unattractive valuation re market price etc, [way more than our bill of sale and we had improved it in meantime with new sails etc

HMRC not concerned, just asked for bill of sale and paid 8500 VAt on 40 ft yacht worth conservatively 65 k in UK [price 48K on bos]

So perhaps , be prepared to pay VAT but 99 times out of 100, with uk flag they will not ask on passing through

Why not sail from CI straight to GIB anyway, avoid all problems

Good luck