Buying a boat - Mast compression vs significant Osmosis?

[samsuka]

Hi,

We have decided to take the jump and buy our first boat, i have sailed a lot on a Moody 31 and 38, and am doing my day skipper now. After viewing a lot of boats i initially started moving towards a Moody 31 or 33, but then have now found a Westerly Falcon 34 which seems to be perfect. I am a big guy, 6ft 4, and so need a boat i can stand up in properly and i have 2 fast growing boys (13 & 12) and a wife, as well as lots of friends and family who are keen to come out sailing. So the Westerly looks perfect to fit all of our needs. We have a budget for our first boat, so dont' want to go mad. I have found 2 that are perfect for what we need, but each one has a problem so i would appreciate some advice.

Both are Westerly Falcon 34s, both 1988, and both need quite a bit of work on them to spruce them up. Both located in the Solent.

Boat 1 is on for £30k. However it has mast compression which the surveyor picked up on, which needs fixing to get insurance, which will cost £5k. I suspect they will take a lower amount as its been on the market a while. Other than that it looks OK, needs some TLC, and it has a brand new, 2020, engine. No mooring.

Boat 2 is on for £20k. Doesnt have mast compression (that we know of), also needs some love, and has an older engine (i think still original), BUT it has significant osmosis. It comes with a mooring which can be extended (seem to be hard to find at the moment in the Solent).

I have read up a bit on Osmosis and keep seeing that it doesnt sink boats, but probably should be treated. It looks expensive to do but i have seen quite a few cases where people did it themselves for a fraction of the cost. As we come into Winter i would be happy to pull it out of the water for a few months and get stuck into it. But can Osmosis affect insurance premiums?

I would appreciate some advice. Am edging towards Boat 2 on the basis that a new engine and osmosis treatment is cheaper than £13k.


Thanks

Sam

 

[Tranona]

Boat 1 any time for me. If the mast compression was not declared then an offer well under asking price is a starting point. If the boat has been for sale for some time in this market it is over priced. £5k sounds a lot to rebuild the mast step.

Why 1 rather than 2? first and foremost the engine. Old engines are usually bad news if you intend to keep the boat and a new one installed professionally of this size (30hp+) will eat all of the £10k difference in asking price. Osmosis is not worth "fixing" at this price level, even if the fix works. More normal to patch as you go along which does of course mean extra work each year. While the mooring with 2 is attractive, you are buying a boat for the long term so get the bet boat you can afford

 

[Stemar]

I'd make a cheeky offer on Boat 1, using the mast problem as leverage, for all the reasons given by Tranona,

One other thought, How old is the standing rigging on these boats? If it's more then 10-15 years old, or of uncertain age, insurers are likely to want to see it replaced, and that's another couple of grand.

As for a mooring, there are some to be had. I understand that Gosport Boat Yard has some in Portsmouth Harbour. Not the cheapest, but they do have a water taxi, which is useful. Wicor Marine would also be worth a call. Even a drying mooring could work in Portsmouth, where the mud is oftendeep enough and gloopy enough for the keel to sink in at low tide so the boat stays upright.

 

[samsuka]

Hi, he has already dropped the price by £3k in the last couple of weeks. And its been on and off the market since March, so yes agree a cheeky offer could bear dividends. Sails are 1996, so yes sounds like new ones are needed. I have been asking a keen sailing friend and he agreed, the new engine is worth it. I am waiting on the cost of the mast step, i will see if i can get a 2nd opinion on it.

Spoke to Wicor and they are full as well. I will check out Gosport Board Yard, i am coming down the A3 so its quite a bit of extra drive.

Would consider a swing mooring initially if i can get one while i get on the waiting lists. Do i just contact the harbour offices?

 

[pvb]

Hi, he has already dropped the price by £3k in the last couple of weeks. And its been on and off the market since March, so yes agree a cheeky offer could bear dividends. Sails are 1996, so yes sounds like new ones are needed. I have been asking a keen sailing friend and he agreed, the new engine is worth it. I am waiting on the cost of the mast step, i will see if i can get a 2nd opinion on it.

The broker's description says "Back on the market after the survey, most items rectified by the vendor." That probably explains why the price dropped a few days ago by £3K. We're virtually in September, and the season will soon be drawing to a close. If you really want "Toucan", make an offer around £26K and put a time limit on it. But if you don't get it, there are lots of other boats around.

 

[samsuka]

OK thanks. Yes not sure what other items there were to fix. Apparently he never felt the mast compression was a problem which is fair enough but several have pulled out because of it. I also agree, i think there should be a lot coming on the market so i am not in any particular rush, as we are able to start holidaying abroad again there might be quite a few options available in a month or two, and hopefully a berth may even come available!

 

[Biggles Wader]

Another vote for boat 1 as long as the price is right. It’s got a specific issue which can be fixed and dealt with and a new engine. The other one has the potential for ongoing work. Id make a low offer and be prepared to go up a little

 

[Pete7]

You could try Luke or his brother for a mooring. They used to also run the chandlery in Lower Quay but moved to Hardway I think.

Portsmouth Moorings

 

[dankilb]

£5k sounds a lot to rebuild the mast step.

This…! Worth negotiating on - but not particularly big deal to fix. It’s on my job list for this winter - I’ve promised the yard they’ll only have to store the mast a week and that’s DIY. I might eat my words… But £5k?? I’m in the wrong line of work!

 

[dankilb]

To add something more constructive to the above… when we bought our boat (2 years ago), the surveyor estimated £1-1.5k for professional fix of the mast (step) compression on a 41’ AWB, all in.

 

[Stemar]

You could try Luke or his brother for a mooring. They used to also run the chandlery in Lower Quay but moved to Hardway I think.

Portsmouth Moorings

Having had a mooring with them, I would only use them if there were no alternative, and only until I found somewhere else. You may be fine with them - I know they have satisfied customers, but I'm not one.

 

[Stemar]

Sails are 1996, so yes sounds like new ones are needed.

That's about another £3k, but I was talking about the standing rigging - the wires that hold the mast up. That's what your insurer will want to know about.

Tired sails will affect performance, especially to windward, but aren't a safety issue, so you can deal with them when the bank balance has recovered from all the other stuff.

 

[Concerto]

This…! Worth negotiating on - but not particularly big deal to fix. It’s on my job list for this winter - I’ve promised the yard they’ll only have to store the mast a week and that’s DIY. I might eat my words… But £5k?? I’m in the wrong line of work!

The £5K will include the lifts, cradle and storage charges, plus removing, storing and restepping the mast. If on the South Coast, this could easily run to £5K.

 

[dankilb]

The £5K will include the lifts, cradle and storage charges, plus removing, storing and restepping the mast. If on the South Coast, this could easily run to £5K.

True. And that should definitely be the line of negotiation. But hopefully the OP could shave a fair margin off in practice (or achieve some economies of scale tackling other jobs at the same time).

Incidentally, it doesn’t necessarily need doing on the hard - depending on local facilities - surely? We can re-step afloat where we are, even with a 16m mast). So I’m planning to do the work in the water.

 

[Tranona]

It is a deck stepped mast with a compression post so it would be logical for the problem to be in the bilge rather than the coachroof. The mast really needs to come down anyway as the rigging is declared as last replaced in 1996!

Note that the seller has already dropped £3k since the discovery of this issue - so it is a declared fault and therefore not much of a bargaining chip. Otherwise the boat seems to be well priced. A very similar Falcon in terms of age and equipment is for sale on the east coast for £32500 and is shown as sale pending, so probably the seller might be resistant to a further big drop. Buyer has the opportunity to have the survey assigned to him which will save both time and money and make the decision easier.

 

[dankilb]

it would be logical for the problem to be in the bilge rather than the coachroof

Indeed. I don’t think Westerly cored the mast step/plinth? Or at least not in a way that left it particularly vulnerable. In contrast, ours (Jen) is cored with what looks like scrap ply, but thankfully that has survived (not so the same ply in the compression post step - but that is in a now normally-dry area of the bilge on ours).

On a lighter note - always liked the Falcon. We looked quite closely at them before we found Christina. This was 2018-19 and I remember a couple of rough ones in the low-/mid-£20ks (inc one that had sunk!) and the best were priced in the mid-/high-£30ks.

So, pricing seems reasonable-ish given the apparent inflation in the market.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

If boat 2 has good sails and everything else is good and provided that the mooring is a bargain, make an offer taking into consideration the cost to replace the engine. I would not worry about osmosis.

 

[Refueler]

If boat 2 has good sails and everything else is good and provided that the mooring is a bargain, make an offer taking into consideration the cost to replace the engine. I would not worry about osmosis.

That's my choice as well. And to be honest ... I'd give the engine a fair whack at proving itself before jumping to replace it.

I know a lot of Westerly / Moody / other owners with original engines and still enjoying good service.