Buying a boat and worrying about the engine

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Spaniard

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Mentioned a while back that I was looking for a retirement boat after a break from boats. Done lots of reading and have a friend who is very helpful in terms of looking at boats and pointing out the potential problem areas. But neither of us knows much about engines and I understand that many surveyors specifically exclude engines from a survey.

So if I'm looking for an oldish sailing boat with a diesel engine, what should I be looking for/worrying about ? Any advice would be really helpful.
 
Surveyors generally don't say much about the engine, but you should be able to hire a mechanic to inspect it if you're concerned.

Some basic checks would be to look for grey/white gunk on the dipstick (indicates water getting into the oil) and checking it turns over (by starting handle if fitted, with the decompressors open) hence isn't seized. Obviously arranging a water supply and starting it up would be good if possible.

Pete
 
I guess the first thing is that you must see the boat in the water with the engine running at full revs under load (probably 3000 - 3500 ish) for a few minutes.

If the owner is not keen on this, you have to ask why.

If he/she is happy to run it at full revs for a few minutes and it sounds loud but otherwise OK, you are probably going to be OK.

I would also do the obvious visual checks of engine and gearbox oil. coolant level, fuel sight glass etc and ask the owner about the service history.

You could also employ an engineer to do the check but I've never done that on cars or boats.

Richard

I see Pete has suggested a land engine check which might be all you can get. However, in this case, I would not expect the owner to agree to running at full revs for a few minutes. I think there is too much potential for something to go horribly wrong, such as the boat falling over!
 
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Lots of smoke is a bad sign as is lots of oil outside the engine. Should start easily first or second turn. Ask for service or refurb history just as you would for the rest of the boat. If you're looking around the boat is there fresh oil stored on board? Little things all help build up a picture of how well it's been looked after
 
I bought a boat several years ago that had an old Yanmar diesel in it. It seemed to go ok, and I did pay for a survey: this reported that there was a bit of noise from the gearbox but the engine was quite old and could go on for years. The engine worked for about 18 months and then something or other failed (I forget exactly what) and basically the whole thing needed replacing which was moderately expensive. It would have been a lot more expensive if it had not been one of the commonest engines around so it was possible to source a reconditioned one that was a fairly straightforward swap for the old one, so that might be something to consider when buying.

The other thing is that replacing the engine doesn't add much to the value of a boat so, whatever your budget, maybe keep that in mind and try to get something where the engine was replaced maybe, say, 5 or 10 years ago so overall the boat doesn't cost any more than another oldish sailing boat that still has its original oldish diesel.
 
A well maintained diesel engine will give a lifetime of service.....but.....everything in life eventually will wear out. The trick is knowing how close to its end any particular engine may be!

I'm a big believer in common sense and in first impressions. If the whole boat is clean, well presented and has a maintenace log, they're all good signs. Personally, I don't like dirty (oil, fuel) or dusty (drive belts) engines or bilges. Coolant and sea water leakages aren't particularly good signs. Dip stick or filler cap oil emulsion checks have been mentioned. Easy starting and smooth, noise free acceleration under load should be easy to check, as is the presence of excessive white, blue or black exhaust smoke. Excessive oil consumption, although I'm not sure how this can be determined (other than expecting an honest answer to the question), isn't good.

And in any case........you've had boats before so you know only too well that they are all money pits! If you don't need to spend unbudgeted money on fixing the engine you'll need extra cash to fix something else!

I hope you have fun in your retirement!
 
Spaniard said:
Mentioned a while back that I was looking for a retirement boat after a break from boats. Done lots of reading and have a friend who is very helpful in terms of looking at boats and pointing out the potential problem areas. But neither of us knows much about engines and I understand that many surveyors specifically exclude engines from a survey.

So if I'm looking for an oldish sailing boat with a diesel engine, what should I be looking for/worrying about ? Any advice would be really helpful.
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I cannot speak for all types of boats but for over 14 years now I do 'Pre Buying Inspection Visits' for people looking to buy a Colvic Watson and many say my report is better than the surveyors, You are right some surveyors just say the type or make of the engine, I want to see the engine start from cold despite if the boat is ashore or in the water, if the seller does not want to do this WALK AWAY!.

Starting the engine from cold will tell you many things and don't look at the engine when it starts look at the exhaust outlet, do you have white. blue or black smoke and how long does it take to clear?? it should be white if any and clear quickly, however it also depends on the engine,some old Fords/BMC/thornycroft etc might have a lot of blue smoke but clears within a minute as the engines is normally bullet proof.

Again if possible I always want to see the engine in gear ahead/astern, did the engine controls work easy or were they very stiff! did they go from ahead to astern easy??

Check that the rudder from centre position goes the same number of turns to port/starboard

Did the engine start straight away? listen to the starter motor,look at the Battery or voltage gauge is it charging, check the fuel filter is there any water in the glass bowl as this l might indicate the fuel tank condition
Check the dip stick of the engine AND the gearbox ! look for any milky signs!, there should be no signs of oil around the engine block also are there any leaks to the cooling water pipes!

A dirty engine bay is a good indication of how it and probably the rest of the boats has been looked after!

Check the diesel fuel lines they should not leak and hopefully be all the same!

If there is water in the bilge ask WHY ! if there is any there is there any oil floating on it! (why).is there a bilge pump to the engine bay and does it work.

These are just some of the basic engine bay checks and do not be afraid to TEST everything and I mean everything including that the heads work:)
 
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As it was said here the basic checks summarized are:
1) Is there wax inside the oil cap. If not, run the engine if possible for a few minutes to get it hot and re-check. If there is wax then there is water mixing with oil. It can be a gasket to be replaced or something more serious. careful
2) check for smoke, if blue, be careful. If black might be just soothing, if white vapour, wonder if there is a leak of the engine overheats
3) check how easy it is to start, however bear in mind that some models require some throttle when cold or they would not start even if new. For example this applies to the Volvo Penta D2 series.
4) if you can engage the propeller listen for noise, however this is tricky because occasionally noises can be induced by the propeller. It was my case when the surveyor made me spend a fortune to investigate a high pitch noise coming from the saildrive at some low revs with the gear engaged forward, and it turned out to be a "singing" propeller.
 
>A well maintained diesel engine will give a lifetime of service

They are designed to last 8,000 hours. In the era of (say) the MD Volvo series they were designed to run an unlimited time.
 
I'm pleased to hear that the MD series Volvos were designed to run an unlimited time. I have an MD1 in my M. O. and it does worry me. It looks like an exhibit from a steam fair and is 40 years old. However, I started and ran it before I bought the boat and it sounded good and didn't produce excessive smoke.
My advice to the OP is to take a knowledgeable friend with you when looking at boats and walk away from any that don't pass muster - there's plenty of good secondhand boats around.
 
KellysEye said:
>A well maintained diesel engine will give a lifetime of service

They are designed to last 8,000 hours. In the era of (say) the MD Volvo series they were designed to run an unlimited time.
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Why are you bringing out this old chestnut again. Scrapyards are littered with dead old style Volvos out of yachts, killed by salt water, neglect and failure of now unavailable or expensive ancilliaries. The basic engine may be able to run longer in test conditions, but not installed in an average yacht.

8000 hours is over 50 years typical yacht use so lifetime not a bad estimate.
 
A 5 year old engine with few hours in a 30 year old boat was one of the deciding factors for me. I knew that whatever else was wrong with the boat the engine should be reliable: so it has proved another 5 years on.
 
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ghostlymoron said:
So how long can I hope my MD1 will last?
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What boat do you have? Could be a long time yet if it's been well looked after & you continue to look after it. My ferro Hartley 32 in Greece has an MD11C & the Dufour 29 I have a deposit on here has an MD6A. Both engines are original, from the late '70's, they've both had pretty comprehensive overhauls within the last 10 years & seem to have been well looked after so I hope they'll keep going for a fair few years more. However I know at some point they might have to be replaced and the boats are not of a size where you could just remove the engine (or not) & use an outboard on a bracket. I could "worry" about the engines but there's not much point, all I can do is maintain them, hope they keep going & if they do become uneconomical to keep going deal with it when it happens...
 
Spaniard said:
So if I'm looking for an oldish sailing boat with a diesel engine, what should I be looking for/worrying about ? Any advice would be really helpful.
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Remember you are buying an older second hand boat - you cannot expect it to be like new. Leave enough financial safety room to cover eventualities. No survey will spot everything.
 
Lots of good advice but I will keep it simple. If you are buying an old boat buy one which has had a new engine. Someone else has taken the financial hit that you will have to take in a few years and you should have a reliable engine instead of an old one that will need work and will be unreliable. Don't ask how I know this! If you don't believe me you can always ask Dylan!
BTW boats with new engines don't seem to go for much more money than boats with old ones!
 
Its true that you don't get back the investment on a new engine. But you are more likely to sell quickly and nearer the asking price.
Dylan's centaur had an original engine I think. I hope it has laid the ghost of The Beast. On an early video he claimed that The Beast was "almost new". Hard to believe as MD1s haven't been produced since the 70s. Perhaps it had been in storage.
 
>Why are you bringing out this old chestnut again. Scrapyards are littered with dead old style Volvos out of yachts, killed by salt water, neglect and failure of now unavailable or expensive ancilliaries.

If you neglect an engine what do you expect it applies to all brands not just Volvo.

>So how long can I hope my MD1 will last?

I asked Volvo what it would cost to build a new engine to the quality of an MD and they said 16,000 pounds which is why no engines are now made to that quality. To answer your question if you service it properly it will last 50,000 hours or more. At stages it will need a full service of pistons, rings, bearings, injector service and head gasket mainly to stop it burning too much oil.
 
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