Buy privately or use a broker

[Phideaux]

What are the benefits of using a broker rather than buying privately, other than the broker is likely to have a longer list of boats available for purchase and it saves on trawling through the private ads?

Will a broker truly winnow out those that initially meet the search criteria but are dogs in reality, or give a realistic assessment of the good vrs bad points of a particular boat regarding condition and the costs likely for getting it into good order?

Or they just the water-based equivalent of estate agents? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Csail]

Even though i'm selling through brokers there is absolutly no benefit to either party except the buyer can find the boat quicker via adverts.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry to say this but VERY silly questions that suggest you don't know what brokers do.

 

[bluedragon]

Like estate agents, brokers act for the seller, not the buyer. You'll be lucky if you can find one that will have your best interests at heart, and advise you independantly and without bias. If you do - LET US KNOW!

We bought privately and I have to say it was very easy and I had answers to all my questions directly from the owner, rather than through the broker (who never knows the answers anyway in most cases). I would also try to sell privately for the same reasons.

 

[MrCramp]

Give him a break....He is an ecologist so unlikely to know anything about the real world!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Phideaux]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to say this but VERY silly questions that suggest you don't know what brokers do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely correct. I have no idea of what brokers do, hence the question. I'm a novice contemplating purchasing a cruiser, probably in the 27-35ft range and was wondering if a broker would at least help to look after my interests, or if it was caveat emptor all the way.

 

[bluedragon]

Harsh words guys! If he's not yet a boat owner, it's a reasonable question. I hoped to get some "guidance" from brokers when I first started looking (but soon learned otherwise /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif). I think one of the problems is that if you're not sure what you're looking for, they can't in most cases be bothered with you. I had an instance last year when I walked into a brokers and said " Hi...thinking of getting a larger boat, and wondered if I could have a look at your listings"...answer was "check our website"...I walked out.

 

[Phideaux]

[ QUOTE ]
Give him a break....He is an ecologist so unlikely to know anything about the real world!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I have bought bricks&mortar in the past for renovation and would:
1. go around the estate agents with a clear brief of what I was looking for
2. then I'd view potential properties and make a shortlist
3. engage a RICS surveyor to view the shortlist with me to comment on the feasibility and costs associated with my intended renovation.
4. use the surveyor to prepare a scope of work for contractors to quote against.
5. use the surveyor to project manage the work.

Do/can brokers fill the rolls of both estate agent and chartered surveyor? In some cases they can do this for B&M (usually the larger managing agents like Strutt & Parker).

 

[ChattingLil]

Absolutely my experience too in the majority of cases with brokers when SEARCHING for a boat. I didn't have a fixed idea of what I wanted, I just had some broad requirements and needed help finding a boat that suited them.

However, when I did finally find my boat, the broker's after sales service was what made the difference. There were many jobs and services that I needed in the first week or two that, as a novice boat owner, I had no idea where to start with.

He helped with the HUGE transition between being a charterer and an owner (most of which I hadn't even begun to realise).

As it turned out the, the previous owner was a bit vague and moved abroad anyway, so having the broker on hand was a huge advantage over having bought privately.

 

[Phideaux]

[ QUOTE ]
Harsh words guys! If he's not yet a boat owner, it's a reasonable question. I hoped to get some "guidance" from brokers when I first started looking (but soon learned otherwise /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif). I think one of the problems is that if you're not sure what you're looking for, they can't in most cases be bothered with you. I had an instance last year when I walked into a brokers and said " Hi...thinking of getting a larger boat, and wondered if I could have a look at your listings"...answer was "check our website"...I walked out.

[/ QUOTE ]

It sounds like this answers my question. I'm getting the impression that brokers only hold a list of boats for sale and cream off a commission. If you're a novice by yourself then it's like a lamb asking the wolf for help, with the wolf only becoming interested if the lamb is fat and juicy /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[bluedragon]

You can use the same process, but the surveyor is (or should be) independant from the broker. It does assume that you know what you want, and can find a good surveyor that is prepared to advise you. They will draw-up a list of work that is needed, and oversee this, but it'll cost needless to say!

 

[Phideaux]

[ QUOTE ]
Absolutely my experience too in the majority of cases with brokers when SEARCHING for a boat. I didn't have a fixed idea of what I wanted, I just had some broad requirements and needed help finding a boat that suited them.

However, when I did finally find my boat, the broker's after sales service was what made the difference. There were many jobs and services that I needed in the first week or two that, as a novice boat owner, I had no idea where to start with.

He helped with the HUGE transition between being a charterer and an owner (most of which I hadn't even begun to realise).

As it turned out the, the previous owner was a bit vague and moved abroad anyway, so having the broker on hand was a huge advantage over having bought privately.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now this is worth knowing. I wouldn't normally even consider asking a high street estate agent to advise on simple building services, let alone a full restoration.

 

[ChattingLil]

[ QUOTE ]
[It sounds like this answers my question. I'm getting the impression that brokers only hold a list of boats for sale and cream off a commission. If you're a novice by yourself then it's like a lamb asking the wolf for help, with the wolf only becoming interested if the lamb is fat and juicy /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a long way off for me, but if I ever get to upgrade I suspect I would look to buy privately as by then I'd hope to have the experience and contacts to go it alone. As a novice boat buyer, I found it useful to go via a broker (though I do think I paid for it).

Perhaps the compromise is to find some trustworthy and knowledgeable friends to help you with the looking for your first time. THey'd have to be good friends though - even with using brokers it still tooks me months and HUNDREDS of miles to find mine!

 

[bluedragon]

[ QUOTE ]

However, when I did finally find my boat, the broker's after sales service was what made the difference. There were many jobs and services that I needed in the first week or two that, as a novice boat owner, I had no idea where to start with.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you make a valid point there, and a good broker should do this (after all, you've earned him his commission). The problem is earlier in the whole process.

 

[Tranona]

I think most people go through a lot of personal research first to narrow down their choice. They do this through reading magazines, looking at the reviews of second hand boats - all the mags do this regularly. There are a number of websites such as www.yachtsnet.co.uk which give details of a wide range of different kinds of boats. Part of the process will include visiting yards and asking brokers to view boats so you can see them "in the flesh". This means that brokers get a lot of casual viewers and day dreamers, which in part explains their sometimes off hand manner. However, if the buyer is serious and has done their homework most brokers will be more attentive and "work" for a sale.

However, they do not normally work for the buyer, so will be limited in the amount of advice they are prepared to give. You can, of course engage one to work as a buyer's agent for a fee, but this is not common.

It can be a messy business because there are so many different kinds of boats avaliable in all sorts of conditions, so the buyer does need to have some knowledge and then rely on the professionals to do the transaction and particularly the surveyor to report on condition.

Welcome to the exciting world of buying boats!

 

[Noddy]

Depends on what you want.

I am comfortable that I can spot a goodun and am usually looking for a project. A broker would most likely steer me away from the scruffy little prospect I can pick up for peanuts.

On the other hand; finding the right boat can take months of prowling boatyards and marinas and then tracing owners.

They provide a service for which they charge is all!

P

 

[maxi77]

At the end of the day some brokers are very good and some bl**dy awful, with a lot in between. We bought our present boat through a very good broker who was a great help, tried to understand our needs and act as a fair intermediary beween us and the seller. He earned his money. DDuring our search we met others we would have been just as happy to deal with too so he was not unique. We did however come across some who I suspect onlyn ever sold a boat by mistake.

At the end of the day the broker is hired and paid by the seller so you must always remeber this. I think you need to do a lot of research, a lot of looking, and a lot of talking before you pick a boat.

 

[snooks]

We're in the process of buying at the moment, and have found the broker we're using a dream to work with.

However you rarely get to choose your broker, you choose the boat and deal with either the broker or the owner. We looked at around 12 different yachts from 8 different brokers.

If you're dealing with the broker you can ask them to ensure the yacht has the relevant paper work, they will chase the owner for requests, you can also ask the broker any sticky questions without fear of upsetting the owner or have them take offence that their pride and joy is nothing other than perfect. Basically they act as an intermediary between you and the owner, they take the deposit, make sure everything is legal and above board. But just like buying cars from dealers you pay a bit more through a broker.

The are also used to selling boats all the time, so they know the process inside and out, if you're a first time buyer I'd recommend using a broker. The YBDSA have a good brief outline of the buying process

 

[Spyro]

I think it comes down to finding the boat you want. Then the question will have answered itself. Is it for sale privately or through a broker?
I wouldn't set out with my mind made up saying I'm only going to buy from a broker or buy from a private sale. I'm still of the belief there is a shortage of boats for sale (just look at the classifieds in this months PBO) It is much easier now than it used to be buying and selling a boat privately, there are quite a few good free websites available to a huge audience worldwide.
There are some advantages in selling through a broker, as mentioned you may not want to deal with all the time wasters or you may live a considerable distance from the boat. Both good reasons to use the services of a broker.

 

[Chris_Robb]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to say this but VERY silly questions that suggest you don't know what brokers do.

[/ QUOTE ]

AND - if the boat you want to buy is being sold through a broker, you ain't got a lot of choice have you.......

Agreed - stupid questions....