Buy privately or use a broker

Should the population of the Earth:

  • be allowed to increase significantly

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • be maintained at its current level

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • be encouraged to decline

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to say this but VERY silly questions that suggest you don't know what brokers do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed - stupid questions....

[/ QUOTE ]

Everybody has to start somewhere. Do you both treat new crew on yer boat the same way /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
AND - if the boat you want to buy is being sold through a broker, you ain't got a lot of choice have you.......

[/ QUOTE ]

It appears from posts here that some sellers register with a broker and also advertise privately.

I am (sorry, read was) happy to use a broker, but this was with the obviously naive hope that if I explained what I was looking for in terms of size, intended use and the required condition, along with budget available, that the broker would advise me as to any vessels on his books that met my requirements, or could be made so (with respect to condition), perhaps even with an approximate estimate of costs for any remedial works necessary.

Yes, the questions may appear silly to someone as obviously experienced and knowledgeable as yourself, but I'm just trying to learn and your response has certainly taught me a lesson /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
You often find boats for sail through multiple sources, both private and brokers, worth watching out for as it can save wasted trips to see the same boat twice.

A decent broker will do all you ask, and often more. Do remeber that though he is working for the sellers, and his idea of the perfect boat for you may not be right. Looking at a lot of boats helps you to refine layouts you like and don't like. Asking questions helps you learn. Whilst looking for your boat you also need to consider joinung a club, and doing that first may get you the opportunity to sail on some boats and do even more brain picking to help you build up a picture of what will suit you best.
 
Depends what you are looking for.

In my case I found three boats for sale (after looking for 9 months) which I was seriously interested in. One was for sale privately, and it was sold by the time I found out about it, the other two were through brokers.

I made an agressive offer on my first choice which was accepted.

If you are looking for something which was produced in the thousands, then you can be more picky.

In my case the one which sold privately was one of 5 similiar boats and the only one for sale. One of the others was one of a production run of 4, the one I bought was from the same builder but a production run of 1.

I think I would have been very happy with any of the three boats (and I am happy with the one I have - except for the tank indicators which don't work properly......)
 
[ QUOTE ]
Whilst looking for your boat you also need to consider joining a club, and doing that first may get you the opportunity to sail on some boats and do even more brain picking to help you build up a picture of what will suit you best.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup. Ashdown SC, and the Newhaven & Seaford SC have both been suggested. It depends on the location of a house in Sussex that convenient for both the commute to work and any club(s). I have family on Hayling Island and Portsmouth (the latter is a ships joiner who fits out for the Navy and commercial large cruisers) but they don't sail much.
 
I bought my current boat through a broker, however I knew what boat I wanted and he had one on his list. He never actually ever saw the boat, I never met him, only had phone contact with him. For all visits to the boat prior to the sale I met directly with the owner who gave me all the information I needed, was a true gent in all aspects. The broker only acted as the agent of the admin process of the purchase and dealt with the negotiations, I never once talked money with the owner. In this case it proved to be sccessful and the broker appeared to be realistic in recognising that we both wanted a deal but it had to be fair. As far as I am aware all of us, the seller, the buyer and the broker were happy with the end result. I guess my point is that brokers can be very good, the broker in this case was basically a one man operation, had a reputaion to maintain and had been in the business a long time. Not so sure I would have the same opinion for the bigger boys who have "estate agent" similarities.
I have also sold privately with success and I think the most important point is to have a very good surveyor in any situation.
As a new to the market potential buyer I would spend as much time as I could afford gettng to know the boat market and viewings to be able to make comparisons between different boat types and boats of the same type. At least then with a broker you will have good knowledge of the product you want and be able to challenge them.
 
Brokers will help with things like finding surveyors, getting quotes for work thrown up by the survey, holding deposits, insurance etc.
The better ones know a lot about various makes of boat, values etc, and can show you a good range of boats in a few hours, because they will have lots at one marina.
If you decide on a particular make or design of boat, then owners clubs and class associations will often find you good deals.
Starting by looking through their websites is probably good advice. Find a couple of boats that you think are within your price range and ask to look at them. Like estate agents, brokers get a lot of people window shopping who have done no preparation, so its easy for them to think you are not serious. Try to narrow down what you want: Price size age, condition, type of sailing, accomodation, etc.
Take your time over it! Some time spent on the Yachtworld website will give you some ideas.
 
Well worth spending a few quid on this book:

here

51NPH28HG8L._SL500_AA240_.jpg
 
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to say this but VERY silly questions that suggest you don't know what brokers do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed - stupid questions....

[/ QUOTE ]

Well - aren't I glad I hadn't read this post when I first joined the forum?

Perhaps there ought to be a new subsection for old hands who don't want to be bothered with silly questions, and another for newbies who are seeking advice from people happy to share.
 
I am going thorugh my first purchase right now, and just as I dislike dealing with car-sales people who make their money off the buyer and the seller, I cant help but think brokers are operataing in the same arena - and savings can be had if the broker network can be avoided.

The second thing to consider is the amount of time it takes. I am buying a yacht from Portugal, thankfully the owner is in the UK, but there is still a lot to organise when everything is considered, and if you have the time and the organisation skills then I would say avoid the brokers. If you dont relish the challenges of it, then a broker will be a big help.

Presently, I am emailing the surveyor and buyer everyday to co-ordinate lifting, survey(takes a few days) , required maintenence work, re-launching, engine testing, sea trials, and new berth. As well as dealing with the contractual aspects, ownership, titles, VAT, any outstanding finance or debts associated with the yacht. Also the finer points of what equipment I will need to get to the yacht (im going to live aboard so have a lot to take) in Portugal,my travel and crew requirements.

Its a lot to think about and organise. If you are time rich as opposed to money rich - Id say do it yourself and dont pay someone for you.


  • PM me if you want to discuss anything.
    Mark
 
Cheers Rob,

How very helpful (as have been all of the replies to my "silly and stupid" questions, one way or the other).

Order placed with Amazon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
If you decide on a particular make or design of boat, then owners clubs and class associations will often find you good deals. Starting by looking through their websites is probably good advice. Find a couple of boats that you think are within your price range and ask to look at them.

[/ QUOTE ]

My initial thoughts are for something like the Kingfisher 30 MkII (or maybe the 30s), also the Elizabethan 29, 30, 31, or 35. I've been onto the respective owners club websites, Google searched and done just about as much as I can without starting to pick up the phone or emailing/PM'ing those existing owners that I've got details for. I don't want to the raise hopes of someone selling, or commit myself to a make/model before getting some experience in comparison to others.

Also I'm not quite sure on the etiquette of cold calling/emailing people in the yachting world with the introduction "Hi, you don't know me as I'm complete novice when it comes to sailing, but I think I'd quite like to buy a yacht and I rather fancy one like yours. Can I come and bother you?" From recent experience, I suspect I'd receive rather short shrift from some.
 
My earlier reply was about your poll. If you'd said that you know nothing about brokers and wanted guidance I would have happily told you what I know but instead of that you asked two questions, neither of which even begin to fairly sum up what a broker is or what he does.

[ QUOTE ]

3. engage a RICS surveyor to view the shortlist with me to comment on the feasibility and costs associated with my intended renovation.
4. use the surveyor to prepare a scope of work for contractors to quote against.
5. use the surveyor to project manage the work.

[/ QUOTE ]You are pulling my leg? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Do you know what training most of them have?

[ QUOTE ]
Do/can brokers fill the rolls of both estate agent and chartered surveyor? In some cases they can do this for B&M (usually the larger managing agents like Strutt & Parker).

[/ QUOTE ]Most brokers are a member of their trade association and abide by laid down rules. Most brokers are very boaty people and keen yachties. Some are better than others. Some are more clued-up about racing, cruising, technical stuff...or other aspects.

The broker acts for both parties in the sale so you shouldn't need your own legal representative when buying.

I have had some really valuable advice from brokers over the years...some are not so good and sometimes you get the gopher but on balance use the broker tempered with common sense.
 
[ QUOTE ]
My earlier reply was about your poll. If you'd said that you know nothing about brokers and wanted guidance I would have happily told you what I know but instead of that you asked two questions, neither of which even begin to fairly sum up what a broker is or what he does.

The broker acts for both parties in the sale so you shouldn't need your own legal representative when buying

[/ QUOTE ]

So what, exactly, does a broker do? There are responses saying that he represents only the owner's interests; you advise that he represents both parties. Some liken them to estate agents (and that's open to a myriad of interpretations).

I now understand (from comments by others) that a broker will arrange the details of the transaction and may provide after sales services. However this sounds as if it is all after committing to the purchase.

From my perspective, if I go to a broker who's advertising a boat on behalf of a seller, explain that I'm a novice and and ask him/her to show me the boat, explaining the good, the bad and the ugly points, am I likely to get a fair, impartial and considered opinion? Or will they be looking to make the sale regardless of my need for advice? From the sounds of it, it will be the latter, in which case I need to engage a knowledgeable professional (for a fee) to act on my behalf.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to say this but VERY silly questions that suggest you don't know what brokers do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed - stupid questions....

[/ QUOTE ]

Everybody has to start somewhere. Do you both treat new crew on yer boat the same way /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably!!!!
 
You're talking about some quite old boats here. Go and have a look at a few and see how you feel about condition, and the obvious work you'd have to do. My feeling is that older boats tend to get sold privately more than through brokers, but that's not a given. You'll get all sorts of responses from private sellers, but I think mostly they'll be quite helpful. Just call or e-mail and say you're interested and when would be convenient to have a look.

Pick ones quite close to you. I travelled hundreds of miles to see heaps of junk described "in good condition" before I learnt the realities. It made little difference whether it was broker or direct seller.

In the end I used to make this point on the phone, and it was interesting how then the true condition began to come out in the conversation. Terms like "seaworthy, but needs a little TLC" often meant "it floats, but needs a complete re-fit".

Good luck!
 
[ QUOTE ]
We're in the process of buying at the moment, and have found the broker we're using a dream to work with. The YBDSA have a good brief outline of the buying process

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, I've just had a read through. Seems quite clear and emphasises the need for a survey. I rather suspect that I might need to engage a broker to act as my agent and advise on potential purchases.
 
[ QUOTE ]
It made little difference whether it was broker or direct seller.

In the end I used to make this point on the phone, and it was interesting how then the true condition began to come out in the conversation. Terms like "seaworthy, but needs a little TLC" often meant "it floats, but needs a complete re-fit".

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, so the equivalent of the estate agent's "exciting opportunity for a keen DIYer to acquire a period property with outstanding potential..."
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We're in the process of buying at the moment, and have found the broker we're using a dream to work with. The YBDSA have a good brief outline of the buying process

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, I've just had a read through. Seems quite clear and emphasises the need for a survey. I rather suspect that I might need to engage a broker to act as my agent and advise on potential purchases.

[/ QUOTE ]

The YBDSA Yacht Brokers Designers and Surveyors Association will heavily recommend a survey, but you don't have to have one.

We had a survey, because we're spending a lot of money (for us) and wanted to make sure she was fine...there are two types of survey, the Structural Survey and a General Condition Survey. We used Jim Pritchard and I found him very thorough and very instructive, and very good, I have no hesitation in recommending him. He reassured me about the bits I was worried about, and took almost 4 hours going over the boat. If you look at his website, you can see the difference between the surveys he does, and also what you check for. Hope that helps
 
[ QUOTE ]
We had a survey, because we're spending a lot of money (for us) and wanted to make sure she was fine...there are two types of survey, the Structural Survey and a General Condition Survey. We used Jim Pritchard and I found him very thorough and very instructive, and very good, I have no hesitation in recommending him. He reassured me about the bits I was worried about, and took almost 4 hours going over the boat. If you look at his website, you can see the difference between the surveys he does, and also what you check for. Hope that helps

[/ QUOTE ]

Most helpful, thanks.

The General Condition Survey certainly looks impressive. I also see that "Written recommendations will be made for method of repair of defects found. Material defects and insurance issues will be listed separately in the summery at the end of the report. A valuation will be included with the report if required. Guidance may also be given regarding the cost of repairs, and appropriate apportionment.

Sounds like it could be what I'm after, although I don't suppose it's inexpensive.

Still, first I've got to find my boat /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top