Burgee on port spreader when flying a courtesy flag

Crazy-Diamond

Crazy-Diamond

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 Mar 2019
Messages
175
Location
Essex. UK
Visit site
Hello all,

I have searched this and other forums, and found endless opinions regarding the flying of a club burgee and courtesy flag at the same time. Many of these threads seem to contradict the RYA advice which says:

"More than one flag may be flown on a halyard except that flag etiquette states that no flag can be above the burgee on the same halyard and no flag can be worn above the courtesy flag. If you fly a burgee at the starboard spreaders and are sailing in the territorial waters of another country this presents something of a dilemma, particularly if you must fly a burgee to match a special Ensign. Unless the burgee is in its traditional position at the masthead, you risk flouting one or another element of flag etiquette. How you choose to resolve this is a matter of choice."

I would like to fly my Moody burgee when flying a courtesy flag. The RYA states it is a matter of choice but gives no advice. Would it be a suitable choice to fly the courtesy flag, and Q flag prior to customs, from the starboard spreader, whilst continually flying the Moody burgee from the port spreader?

I can't use the masthead. I do not need to fly a club burgee to match a special Ensign.

Giles
 
I fly the curtesy ensign on the Port spreader and my burgees on the Stbd. I'm not alone in this. My RNSA pennant is above my club burgee and then comes my scuttlebutt burgee. All three on the same spreader, of course. Don't want to upset the French unnecessarily (unlike Nige).

A lot of boats have their burgees hauled up to the top of the mast on a stick, but I have signal halliards on the spreader. That may be the origin of the "no flag higher than the burgee" rule. I can't do it and can't be bothered to fit a burgee halyard up the side of my mast. No one's ever complained.
 
Last edited:
I suspect courtesy would be much better maintained if the burgees were to port and the courtesy flag to stbd where it must be, to be correct. There is no requirement to fly a burgee at all whereas there definately is to fly a courtesy flag and what's more it's specified on which side it has to go. If you can't fly the RNSA burgee to your satisfaction it is surely better and more courteous to revert to the red than misplace a national compliment?
You've only got away with it (so far) through French tolerance. Don't try that stunt in Turkey, you'd come well unstuck.

My workaround is to have two sets of signal halliyards on the stbd side so courtesty flag can go outboard and (RNSA) burgee inboard, at the same height. It seems to satisfy the conventional etiquette.
Port side is mainly for battle ensign, le jolie rouge, gin penant etc, ie frivolity, not serious stuff.
 
Last edited:
Crazy-Diamond said:
Hello all,

I have searched this and other forums, and found endless opinions regarding the flying of a club burgee and courtesy flag at the same time. Many of these threads seem to contradict the RYA advice which says:

"More than one flag may be flown on a halyard except that flag etiquette states that no flag can be above the burgee on the same halyard and no flag can be worn above the courtesy flag. If you fly a burgee at the starboard spreaders and are sailing in the territorial waters of another country this presents something of a dilemma, particularly if you must fly a burgee to match a special Ensign. Unless the burgee is in its traditional position at the masthead, you risk flouting one or another element of flag etiquette. How you choose to resolve this is a matter of choice."

I would like to fly my Moody burgee when flying a courtesy flag. The RYA states it is a matter of choice but gives no advice. Would it be a suitable choice to fly the courtesy flag, and Q flag prior to customs, from the starboard spreader, whilst continually flying the Moody burgee from the port spreader?

I can't use the masthead. I do not need to fly a club burgee to match a special Ensign.

Giles
Click to expand...

Chop the Moody burgee up and sew it back together as a rectangular house flag and fly it from the port spreader
 
For us the starboard is for country flag above regional flag and the port is for any number of house and club flags and burgees. Nobody seems to mind.
 
Old Bumbulum said:
I suspect courtesy would be much better maintained if the burgees were to port and the courtesy flag to stbd where it must be, to be correct. There is no requirement to fly a burgee at all whereas there definately is to fly a courtesy flag and what's more it's specified on which side it has to go. If you can't fly the RNSA burgee to your satisfaction it is surely better and more courteous to revert to the red than misplace a national compliment?
You've only got away with it (so far) through French tolerance. Don't try that stunt in Turkey, you'd come well unstuck.

My workaround is to have two sets of signal halyards on the stbd side so courtesy flag can go outboard and (RNSA) burgee inboard, at the same height. It seems to satisfy the conventional etiquette.
Port side is mainly for battle ensign, le jolie rouge, gin pennant etc, ie frivolity, not serious stuff.
Click to expand...

I agree with everything Old Bumbulum has said here.

Should anyone wish to fly their burgee at the masthead, clear of all the ironmongery, I will pass on this excellent recommendation from Pyrojames:

http://www.theflagman.co.uk/product-category/telescopic-flagpoles/
 
It's a long while since I had the facility to fly the burgee at the masthead, so I just follow conventional use and fly my burgee on the starboard halyard, moving it to the port side when that place is occupied by the courtesy flag. It gives the crew something to occupy them and keep them out of mischief.
 
As another alternative, you can ask the relevant club for permission to put their burgee somewhere else, normally at the bow. Mirabella V did this with NYYC permission, because it was technically difficult to get the burgee to the mast head. Permissions are normally enduring - ie you ask once and you have it for life of that boat. See this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUY4CaLjsPE
 
RAFSA Burgee (to match ensign) on starboard spreader and thing else (CA etc) on port. If flying a courtesy flag I would put it on the stbd spreader above the RAFSA burgee - don't want to offend if I'm a visitor.......
 
We used to have a gaff yawl with flag halyards to both mastheads, the main spreaders, and the peak of the mizzen gaff - every traditional requirement catered for :)

Nowadays with a standard three-cornered sloop I fly the YBW burgee from the starboard spreader, and when abroad move it to port and put the courtesy flag on starboard. My dad does the same thing substituting his RAFSA burgee for my YBW one.

Pete
 
RichardS said:
Starboard spreader is for important "legal" things like courtesy flags, Q flags. Port spreader for anything or nothing .... nobody of any importance cares a jot. ;)

Richard
Click to expand...
Seems about right. Having to ask a club for permission to fly a flag somewhere on my own boat would put me right off being in that club.
 
RichardS said:
Starboard spreader is for important "legal" things like courtesy flags, Q flags. Port spreader for anything or nothing .... nobody of any importance cares a jot. ;)

Richard
Click to expand...
Gonna have to change the habit of a lifetime, well nearly. OH well! apparently you can teach an old dog new tricks.......
 
Thank you for all the advice. I will follow the advice, and my original thought, of flying the Moody burgee from the starboard halyard when the need to fly a courtesy flag, Q flag etc arises.
 
We are CA members and fly the CA defaced blue. It is a requirement to fly the CA burgee. This is flown on the starboard side, courtesy flag under. No problems with officials in visited countries-Ireland, IOM, France-so far.

Got taken to task by a blowhard from another UK boat in Cherbourg though. He was very strident.

After a minute of his rantings I suggested he Foxtrot Oscar and I went below.

Life is too short for such trivia...........................
 
>We are CA members and fly the CA defaced blue. It is a requirement to fly the CA burgee. This is flown on the starboard side, courtesy flag under. No problems with officials in visited countries-Ireland, IOM, France-so far.

No wonder you were taken task that is wrong, the CA or other club flag should always be flown on the port spreaders as ours was.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top