Bukh/Bosch problem

[Cantata]

I wonder if anyone can help with this.
Friend of mine has a Fisher, it has a Bukh DV48 3-cyl engine which is not that old, 2007 I think.
He's based on the E. Coast but has had to leave the boat in Gosport with what some respected engineers have told him is a terminal problem with the Bosch injector pump. The pump has a Bukh number of 610A3300, and a Bosch number of 0460403004.
Apart from the expense and inconvenience, the really bad news is that he's being told that neither a replacement pump, nor the parts to repair the old one (reportedly would have to be made to order by Bosch!), can be available for maybe months.
There are obvious q's like "Isn't there an unsold engine on a pallette somewhere that has this pump" but so far no joy.
So...long shot, does anyone have any ideas to get this thing fixed faster?

 

[Silent Lady]

Start Here

Bukh Web Site and Phone Numbers

I would phone them . Tell them the problem and see what they have to say . 2007 engine sounds very young for major parts ....

They ship parts world wide from here ....

 

[Cantata]

Thanks but that's been done already.

 

[Heckler]

I wonder if anyone can help with this.
Friend of mine has a Fisher, it has a Bukh DV48 3-cyl engine which is not that old, 2007 I think.
He's based on the E. Coast but has had to leave the boat in Gosport with what some respected engineers have told him is a terminal problem with the Bosch injector pump. The pump has a Bukh number of 610A3300, and a Bosch number of 0460403004.
Apart from the expense and inconvenience, the really bad news is that he's being told that neither a replacement pump, nor the parts to repair the old one (reportedly would have to be made to order by Bosch!), can be available for maybe months.
There are obvious q's like "Isn't there an unsold engine on a pallette somewhere that has this pump" but so far no joy.
So...long shot, does anyone have any ideas to get this thing fixed faster?

I would get a second opinion, the local pump shop in Wrexham can and will rebuild anything plus I cannot believe a 3 year old pump is that sha gged!
Stu

 

[Billjratt]

Are you saying that neither Bukh nor Bosche can service/replace a three year old product?
I find that hard to believe, my 32 yr old perkins is still supported.

 

[SAMYL]

I smell a rat. I think they just want to fleece you for a new pump. I would have thought that Bukh/ Bosch could have given better service.
Your local fuel injection specialist should be able to help and a lot cheaper too. Take the pump off and give it to them for examination.
You may find that Lucas /Cav or some other maker may have a compatable one.

 

[penfold]

As already noted, this smells of fish; obtain a second opinion.

 

[waterbuffalo]

Try taking the pump to Panda Engineering in Fareham.

They were able to refurb my 20+ years old Bukh fuel pump.

 

[oldfatgit]

Speak to these guys. They know their stuff and are totally honest. http://www.twmarine.co.uk/

 

[Latestarter1]

Are you saying that neither Bukh nor Bosche can service/replace a three year old product?
I find that hard to believe, my 32 yr old perkins is still supported.

Lets get get a bit real guys.

#1 Support for old CAV DPA pumps with hydraulic governors started to dry up over two years ago when Delpi pulled the plug. Not evident yet but it will catch up with owners of old stuff, parts and test plans are becoming increasingly harder to source. life is not standing still.

#2 Bosch pump shops however good can only build with parts they can access. Back in 2001 I was working with diesel engine manufacturer in Czech Republic. We developed a Euro 3 engine working with Bosch. When it came to crunch time Bosch wanted a guarantee of 60,000 units per annum before agreeing to go beyond prototype stage. The eventual result was the the manufacturer dumped a perfecty sound design and purchased engines in from outside supplier instead.

Bukh are a small volume player and I expect that Bosch are squeezing them real hard and charging big $$ for knife and fork numbers, both for production and service. I cannot find any EPA Tier II appoval docket for Bukh engines so I am not sure exactly where they are going, so I suspect that Bosch guys think the same and do not have a huge commitment.

#3 A Bosch VE of 2007 vintage will automatically incorporate the LFP (Light Fuel Pack) therefore there is ONLY one cause of rotor head failure, same old story contaminated fuel. Owners have to get real on the subject of fuel filteration!

My only answer for Cantata is to push real hard but politely on Bukh direct, not their dealer/agent and be prepared to accept anything they have to offer, prototype, whatever they have.

By the way do not forget the debris from the rotor head will find its way to the injectors, also without a filteration set up 'fit for purpose' this will happen all over again.

 

[daveyw]

If you have to change to a Lucas pump, you may have to have the injectors reset as the pressures are slightly different.

 

[Cantata]

Thanks for all the suggestions so far, all passed on to the owner.

 

[Latestarter1]

If you have to change to a Lucas pump, you may have to have the injectors reset as the pressures are slightly different.

Do not even consider change to mechanically goverend DPA pump as feaseable let alone practical.

#1 Delpi DPA is vastly inferior to Bosch VE, particularly if the pump fitted to the Bukh incorporates Bosch KSB cold start feature. When we switch to the new ULSD the DPA may suffer from hot restart problems if compartment temperatures are high. Bosch VE with LFP handles ULSD with no issues.

#2 Bosch and Delphi are timed differently, one is timed at start of injection the other timed for injection end. Engines offering both pumps have pump gear with different set of timing marks.

#3 New injectors would be required as well a new bespoke injector lines.

We have now exceeded the cost of equivalent brand new Beta/Kubota or Yanmar.

Replacement Bosch to correct spec is the only option.

 

[grumpygit]

I wonder if anyone can help with this.
Friend of mine has a Fisher, it has a Bukh DV48 3-cyl engine which is not that old, 2007 I think.
He's based on the E. Coast but has had to leave the boat in Gosport with what some respected engineers have told him is a terminal problem with the Bosch injector pump. The pump has a Bukh number of 610A3300, and a Bosch number of 0460403004.
Apart from the expense and inconvenience, the really bad news is that he's being told that neither a replacement pump, nor the parts to repair the old one (reportedly would have to be made to order by Bosch!), can be available for maybe months.
There are obvious q's like "Isn't there an unsold engine on a pallette somewhere that has this pump" but so far no joy.
So...long shot, does anyone have any ideas to get this thing fixed faster?

Try Merlin Diesels at Preston +441772694130, they will either supply ser/ex or do a rebiuld.
I think they will deal to the public and take credit card. I used them a lot when I was in business and had no problems with them at all...............

______________________________________________________________________

 

[Latestarter1]

Try Merlin Diesels at Preston +441772694130, they will either supply ser/ex or do a rebiuld.
I think they will deal to the public and take credit card. I used them a lot when I was in business and had no problems with them at all...............

______________________________________________________________________

I would suggest that posters here are having a problem understanding some simple cocepts here;

However good the Bosch pump shops being suggested they will need PARTS to repair Bosch pump # 0460403004. Either on the dealers shelf or from the Bosch PDC in Germany.

Unless a dealer is holding a new rotor head assembly in stock where else can he go other than Bosch PDC which we have to assume has zero current stock level. The ONLY people who can bully Bosch is Bukh. There is much non genuine Bosch and Delphi stuff out there which pump shops use, however who would even consider producing non genuine parts for a low volume injector rump, economics just do not add up.

Just one of the issues you have to accept when buying either an old or low volume engine.

 

[grumpygit]

I would suggest that posters here are having a problem understanding some simple cocepts here;

However good the Bosch pump shops being suggested they will need PARTS to repair Bosch pump # 0460403004. Either on the dealers shelf or from the Bosch PDC in Germany.

Unless a dealer is holding a new rotor head assembly in stock where else can he go other than Bosch PDC which we have to assume has zero current stock level. The ONLY people who can bully Bosch is Bukh. There is much non genuine Bosch and Delphi stuff out there which pump shops use, however who would even consider producing non genuine parts for a low volume injector rump, economics just do not add up.

Just one of the issues you have to accept when buying either an old or low volume engine.

I'm just trying to pass on some good information of years of dealing with these people.
On spending 1000s upon 1000s of pounds monthly with Merlin, I haven't ever sent a faulty unit back, warranty or otherwise........

They aren't some back street boy's and I think you shouldn't try to pre-empt what they have or haven't got. Take a look first www.merlindiesel.com

Been a dealer you can get anything overnight from Watford or 48hrs ex Germany providing they hold the stock.....

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[Malish]

Cantata

If you are based in the Medway area then a conversation with the chap at Rochester City Diesel might be worth having - he is a very straight talking chap and, in my experience, his servicing of both pumps and injectors is first rate.

http://www.hotfroguk.co.uk/Companies/Rochester-City-Diesel

 

[DownWest]

Veery interesting.
A mate stopped off on his way to Portugal in an LDV van. Day two, it refused to start. As it was a Ford Engine with a digital control system, we (after checking all the obvious) had it towed to the local Ford agent. Not ours, was the cry. Pushed, and they ran a check on the computor. Injector pump stuffed, said they. But without being able to run it. "we will find an exchange". Not possible, as the unit is vertually unknown in europe (??) They finaly
have it rebuilt by the local 'expert' and it all runs OK. Bill was €2,500. 6 month warranty in Europe. Arrives in Portugal, same problem. Ford refused to look at it. A Honda garage sussed out that there was a problem with the CPU and cleaned/dried it out. Worked since then.
Before you say "Sue the Ba+++rds", have you ever tried it in Europe?. Pay the lawyers and forget it.
Rant over, but.....
A

Eed: my typing is a bit slow and I had to do some cooking, so this is a bit out of kilter.-A

 

[Latestarter1]

Veery interesting.
A mate stopped off on his way to Portugal in an LDV van. Day two, it refused to start. As it was a Ford Engine with a digital control system, we (after checking all the obvious) had it towed to the local Ford agent. Not ours, was the cry. Pushed, and they ran a check on the computor. Injector pump stuffed, said they. But without being able to run it. "we will find an exchange". Not possible, as the unit is vertually unknown in europe (??) They finaly
have it rebuilt by the local 'expert' and it all runs OK. Bill was €2,500. 6 month warranty in Europe. Arrives in Portugal, same problem. Ford refused to look at it. A Honda garage sussed out that there was a problem with the CPU and cleaned/dried it out. Worked since then.
Before you say "Sue the Ba+++rds", have you ever tried it in Europe?. Pay the lawyers and forget it.
Rant over, but.....
A

Eed: my typing is a bit slow and I had to do some cooking, so this is a bit out of kilter.-A

Most times I would ignore this kind of 'dock talk' however it bears absolutely no relavance to the real world.

Back in the late 90's Transit and LDV shared the same Ford engine. The last of the 2.5 diesels had a Lucas/Delph EPIC fuel pump. Dumb mechanical rotary pump with nuts simple electronic governing. Used clunky 8-bit microcontroller, the 68HC11 from Motorola.

'Not ours, was the cry. Pushed, and they ran a check on the computor. Injector pump stuffed, said they. But without being able to run it. "we will find an exchange". Not possible, as the unit is vertually unknown in europe (??).

#1 I am not sure that Ford diagnostic kit actually works 100% on LDV as Ford is not true OBD.
#2 'Virtually unknown in Europe' What was the largest selling van in Europe until about 2001? Ford Transit with EPIC pump. What was the runner up to Ford? dependant on country Mercedes or Iveco. What pump did Mercedes use at the time? EPIC. What pump did certain Citroen and Renault diesel cars use at the time........ EPIC, I seem to remember seeing a few of those makes in Europe.

I expect the workshop controller was screaming get the Brit van out of the workshop, costing workshop hours, and Brits have a terrible reputation for complaining about the cost of repairs, or plain not paying.

As to the cause, I expect dumb sods at LDV simply assembled the loom to the ECU without Lubriplate dialectric grease.

As to suing anybody, I suspect you are warning against it? I would totally agree. Solicitors never fix broken engines.

Talk quetly and reasonably to Bukh head office in Denmark but carry a big stick.

 

[Cantata]

The owner did tell me this morning that he's tracked down a possible s/hand replacement, not confirmed yet. But please keep the suggestions coming, all useful stuff, very grateful.
Unless a quick fix is forthcoming, he's planning to sail the boat from the Solent to his home port of Dover (yes, it's a Fisher) to get away from the fancy Solent marina fees. Just needs a guaranteed SW blow for 24 hours, and a tow in at the destination (already negotiated!).