Building a 12" Naval Gun

I was interested to see the octagonal ingot.

25 years ago, working in China, I was told that one of the things that had held back the Chinese special steels industry for some time was the use of octagonal ingots, a technique taught by Russian advisers in the Fifties. Apparently in cooling some added elements tended to migrate into the corners so the steel was not uniform in specification.
 
Kukri said:
I was interested to see the octagonal ingot.

25 years ago, working in China, I was told that one of the things that had held back the Chinese special steels industry for some time was the use of octagonal ingots, a technique taught by Russian advisers in the Fifties. Apparently in cooling some added elements tended to migrate into the corners so the steel was not uniform in specification.
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Even normal ingots, have a variable crystal structure across the body, with crap in specific areas, thats why 'soaking pits' are used, to reheat the ingot, making it more uniform before next stage of slabbing (in a sheet making plant). Reheared again in a slab furnace before further rolling.
 
scotty123 said:
Even normal ingots, have a variable crystal structure across the body, with crap in specific areas, thats why 'soaking pits' are used, to reheat the ingot, making it more uniform before next stage of slabbing (in a sheet making plant). Reheared again in a slab furnace before further rolling.
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We had a strange job with fairly big lumps designed to update mobile phone masts. The flame cut material was around 200 square and 150 thick. As we machined it we found inclusions that looked like lumps of coke! It was sourced from Russia.
 
I have never built a naval gun but, you never know, I might feel like building one one day, so I would like to know what effect the wire winding has. I couldn't see how thick this layer was, but presumably the direction of the metal's content adds to the strength of the barrel, as, I believe, with some early cannons.
 
johnalison said:
I have never built a naval gun but, you never know, I might feel like building one one day, so I would like to know what effect the wire winding has. I couldn't see how thick this layer was, but presumably the direction of the metal's content adds to the strength of the barrel, as, I believe, with some early cannons.
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I've never built a cannon, but assume the wire winding, will be in tension when the touchpaper is lit & stops the barrel exploding outward, forcing the pressure along the bore & chucking the projectile forward.
 
Some may find this of interest.... a dutch cannon dating from the 1600's....
Scroll maybe a third of the way down Batavia - the ship

And I always though they were just a simple casting...

'How the composite cannon was made

A sheet of copper for the bore of the gun was moulded to form a tube. Six flat iron bars running the length of the gun were mounted around the copper tube and fixed in place by 30 wrought iron bands ranging in thickness from 16 to 56 mm.

The gunpowder chamber in the breech was formed separately, strengthened with additional iron bands and held in place by hammering over the ends of the long iron bars. The trunnions (projections on each side which supported the gun on its wooden carriage) were then attached and iron pins mounted around them. Copper sheathing was then fitted to the outside of the whole gun forming an ornamental casing.

At this stage, the gun was covered in clay, upended and heated. Molten lead solder was then poured into the top until all the spaces between the different metals were filled.'

The old Fremantle Maritime Museum is excellent value... the new one... not so much...
 
I have visited the Batavia once at Lelystad. It is quite interesting, but, as a replica, a bit soulless, though there is more to see in the rest of the museum. I didn't pay much attention to her guns though. HMS Warrior had interesting guns. It's a few years since I was there, but I think that a few are original and the others mock-ups. She carried a mixture of breech-loaders and muzzle-loaders I think, from a period of transition.
 
There is a museum about this stuff at Priddys Hard in Gosport. Its on the site of one of the old armament depots in the Pompey area. Anyone been? Ive only walked through it but not visited.
 
capnsensible said:
There is a museum about this stuff at Priddys Hard in Gosport. Its on the site of one of the old armament depots in the Pompey area. Anyone been? Ive only walked through it but not visited.
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Yes, a little time ago (10+ years) from what I recall it was good. I think I spent a day split between there (Explosion) and the Submarine Museum.
 
Hms Caroline at Belfast is a superb visit. She's not quite original in that some superstructure modifications were made during and post WW2. Inside is very well done. The engine room is particularly atmospheric.
 
johnalison said:
I have never built a naval gun but, you never know, I might feel like building one one day, so I would like to know what effect the wire winding has. I couldn't see how thick this layer was, but presumably the direction of the metal's content adds to the strength of the barrel, as, I believe, with some early cannons.
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As Scotty123 suggests.


Built-up gun - Wikipedia
 
I've been wondering about the conditions inside a turret with several of those calibre (and bigger) guns in full flow. The noise must have been a tad interesting.
 
capnsensible said:
I've been wondering about the conditions inside a turret with several of those calibre (and bigger) guns in full flow. The noise must have been a tad interesting.
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Full flow was one round per gun every thirty seconds and with a slight lag between each gun in a turret.

Anti flash suits and ear protection were standard practice. The noise comes from the muzzle of the gun and several inches of armour plate tended to deaden it.
 
halcyon said:
The bowler hat lot would more likely have come up from the shop floor via chargehand, foreman and superintendent and finally production manager. Though this changed in the 60's, as all engineering did, to a academic based system, which just happens to correspond with our decline in manufacture.
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& what are you suggesting by that comment? That academic based training was the cause of decline in manufacturing?? Or that academic training is, in some way, "wrong"?
 
capnsensible said:
I've been wondering about the conditions inside a turret with several of those calibre (and bigger) guns in full flow. The noise must have been a tad interesting.
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If one can extrapolate from a tank turret (admittedly only one gun and an order of magnitude smaller) considerably better than being anywhere rear the gun outside when it is fired.
 
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