Build quality modern yachts

In my experience from a day to day use point of view the key difference is the quality of cabinet work. You only need to compare a 10 year old Beneteau (or similiar) with a 10 year old Swan, or HR, or Oyster. The quality of the interior materials and workmanship are a million miles apart.

When it comes to the crunch (pardon the pun) the same can be said for the structure, but most people dont push boats to this level, so it doesnt really matter.

Basic fittings will often come from the same parts bin regardless of manufacturer, so HB's will fit the same water pump as Beneteau.

I think my IP is of excellent build and I have had others aboard who cant believe it doesnt creek in a seaway - and it really doesnt. Workman get annoyed when it comes to drilling through any internal structures - they simply cant believe how thick they are, and the hull has no core, it is just a thick slab of fibreglass and resin. I know you will say, all contributes to a heavier vessel, and inevitably it does, its no light weight flyer, but I suspect it will stand the test of time without showing its age.

That is the key difference. It doesnt make one necessarily better than the other - just different.
 
".............and the hull has no core, it is just a thick slab of fibreglass and resin. I know you will say, all contributes to a heavier vessel......."

You have a tough hull there.

Cored hulls have great strength, for sure and can take a knock. Ideal for large unsupported areas of hull and deck. However once the bond breaks the spell is gone so with a couple of bashes, not so good. The first couple of minutes of this video illustrate the point, on a solid laminate:



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There is one major set of qualities between older boats and modern one. I was chatting with another owner today on this subject. I have a 1980 Westerly Fulmar, but could have bought a new 32ft yacht. Ignoring build quality, you should also consider these factors.
How well does it sail? Is it easy to sail fast with no vices like slamming to windward or suddenly luffing up in a gust.
Are there sufficient hand holds down below to move about is a seaway?
Can you use the toilet in rough weather?
Are there any true sea berths with lee boards?
Is there enough storage for clothes, etc. for every on on board?
Is there storage for an inflatable dinghy, outboard, fenders, warps, etc?
Is it easy to step from a pontoon on to the deck? Many modern yachts have very high freeboard and require a step. This is critical when berthing anywhere. Also high freeboards means more windage that can cause probems berthing.
What is the motion of the boat sitting in the water? Older boats boats tend to sit in the water rather than on it.
Is the aft run of the hull very low, so wash or waves at anchor slap the hull causing disturbed nights sleep.

These are all questions to ask before buying a floating caravan, sorry yacht.
 
'quality' in engineering means being exactly, repeatably only just good enough.
A cynical view but the 'Rolls Royce and rose tinted specs' view of quality, a nice bit of varnished wood that doesn't do anything, isn't much help either. Can you afford the minions to keep it working and shiny?

The real questions are more like:
Do you understand what it's costing you?
Does it do want you want?
Do you enjoy owning it?
Does it cause you stress?

At one time I owned two racing dinghies.
One was a work of art, handbuilt by a champion, high maintenance and not easy to live with.
The other was a mass produced lump of plastic which just did the job and delivered enjoyable sailing/racing at low cost and nil hassle.
I miss the first one.
 
TernVI said:
'quality' in engineering means being exactly, repeatably only just good enough.
A cynical view but the 'Rolls Royce and rose tinted specs' view of quality, a nice bit of varnished wood that doesn't do anything, isn't much help either. Can you afford the minions to keep it working and shiny?

The real questions are more like:
Do you understand what it's costing you?
Does it do want you want?
Do you enjoy owning it?
Does it cause you stress?

At one time I owned two racing dinghies.
One was a work of art, handbuilt by a champion, high maintenance and not easy to live with.
The other was a mass produced lump of plastic which just did the job and delivered enjoyable sailing/racing at low cost and nil hassle.
I miss the first one.
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What is quality? Such an important question. I deal with it every day. Not a simple one and in engineering it is actually not just about a the minimum design that works. There are many attributes of a high quality engineered design. For example long life and high performance are usually contradictory, but both are aspects of quality.

There is a aesthetic aspect to quality, nothing to do with the engineering or longevity issues, but important.

There is a quality in craftsmanship, of the choice of materials and their use. Again a different attribute of quality all on its own.

Quality is often hidden. It is often subjective, particularly with regard to aesthetics. I have always been impressed by the existence of a consensus seen as to what is good quality. People generally know it when they see it straight away, but it is usually much harder to explain why.
 
Shannow said:
Talking about the ‘mass produced’ beneteaus/baverias

they look like lovely boats for the money - is lots of space and good value eg Oceanis 38.1
How does the build compare to some of the older boats these builders now seem to have priced out the market?

as a kid my parents had a southerly which was a basic boat but did the job

now the family cruisers have bags more space, separate showers etc in a boat only a little longer - but while look great new wondering what’s beneath the skin?

Am I better off buying a 10y old ‘better?’ boat for similar money

depreciation is an issue here we are not looking to drop a ton of money as will only use the boat maybe 3-4w a year
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Another welcome to the forum ☹️

You’re asking some great questions and the responses clearly reflect the boating history of the the responder.

I came to sailing relatively late in life, in my 40s, so I’m not burdened with distorted childhood memories.

My first experience of a sailing school boat was a brand much loved by many forumites. I thought it was dreadful and my sailing career almost ended before it had begun.

I don’t think your comment that the mass builders have priced the older British brands out of the market is entirely true. Most of the British builders went out of the market without needing help from the French or Germans.

Most things in life progress and boats are no exception. Of course, not everyone agrees.

Not everyone buys a boat with an eye to a financial evaluation. From a financial point of view, probably the best advice is to rent. However, quality family time and sheer pleasure and enjoyment that can be derived from sailing can be priceless.

There are many variables to boat ownership and how they are evaluated becomes a matter of personal choice. I love to see other people on the water enjoying their pastime, regardless of make, age or its size. My choice was pretty close to the one mentioned in your post. I always aspired to buying new but it took me 20 odd years to get there.

Whatever your choice, I hope you enjoy it. Fair winds.
 
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I was recently pushed yet another "couple buy a boat with the dream of sailing around the world" youtube video. A 2008 Beneteau 49. It was run aground and the internal grid had separated from the hull!!! They think it's a fixer upper. Good luck to them!

Whist i have no knowledge of how hard the grounding was, I was surprised to hear them say it's known failure mode and there is a standard way of re-bonding it!
 
The separation of the internal grid is exactly why I would never buy a modern yacht, nor one with a sandwich hull (search Google for Hazar 30 yacht) . I have balsa cored decks and they are bad enough.

As far as I know there is no standard way to refix the internal grid, so may be they live in the land of hope, rather than the land of hopelessness they will end up in.
 
A friend looked around the sunseeker yard in portland and said as well as building all the interior from mdf the hull reinforcing is now also mdf.
That certainly sums up the build quality of some modern yachts
 
Rappey said:
A friend looked around the sunseeker yard in portland and said as well as building all the interior from mdf the hull reinforcing is now also mdf.
That certainly sums up the build quality of some modern yachts
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Now here I would be a little cautious as there are different types of engineered wood, some of which would be suitable.
 
I've chartered twice now and own a Dufour 430 in Spain. I was talking to a non sailing friend about boat ownership the other day and he couldn't understand me when I said my boat actually means more to me than my house although its a far less valuable asset on paper! I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way? :unsure:
 
dune16 said:
I've chartered twice now and own a Dufour 430 in Spain. I was talking to a non sailing friend about boat ownership the other day and he couldn't understand me when I said my boat actually means more to me than my house although its a far less valuable asset on paper! I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way? :unsure:
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We had drinks on a Norwegian Dufour 38 from around 1990s that they had sailed around the World on, in 2002. My impression was that it was much more conservative than a 40-ish new Dufour that some people from my club raced in the 2000s, from which the boat suffered somewhat.
 
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