snowleopard
Well-Known Member
not a word this morning about the budget. is everyone bored by the non-event or rigid with apoplexy? or could it be you were out buying booze & fags at the old prices till midnight?
Budget - stunned or bored?
- Thread starter snowleopard
- Start date
Cobra
Well-Known Member
Nah!
Just wondering how Gordy Frown is going to manage to keep all the balls in the air! Still I guess by the middle of May it will be of no real concern to his mob of lying, theiving, ba*****s as we will no doubt be stuck with 'em again for yet another term!
He has effectively bought the 'Grey' vote, and probably the First Time Buyer vote.
Ho Hum /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Just wondering how Gordy Frown is going to manage to keep all the balls in the air! Still I guess by the middle of May it will be of no real concern to his mob of lying, theiving, ba*****s as we will no doubt be stuck with 'em again for yet another term!
He has effectively bought the 'Grey' vote, and probably the First Time Buyer vote.
Ho Hum /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
tcm
...
um yes. But none of their budgets have been massive re-engineering, have they? Same main tax rates, same tax collections mechanisms, everything - just a few p more on this plus behind the scenes "clampdowns" on complicated stuff - and so on and so on so not much difference really, just more awkwardness with speed cameras etc. Oops! I mean, what an incredible feat of econmic management, and the fact that people pay tax is entirely down the gordon brown and NOTHING to do with the fact we'll go to priz if we don't pay.
ok it's personal - I haven't really forgiven the man for being chancellor of the exchequer and yet serving sparkling wine at his wedding...
ok it's personal - I haven't really forgiven the man for being chancellor of the exchequer and yet serving sparkling wine at his wedding...
AlexL
Well-Known Member
Nothings changed, he is still running the economy the same way as most people are running their lives - i.e by spending money he hasn't got and basically running the public services 'on tick'. There is still a huge - 10 to 20 bn - black hole which needs to be filled by spending cuts or tax increases. Oh yeah and as was pointed out last week his excessive public sector recruitment has landed the country with a 700 billion off balance sheet pension liabilility.
I'm not sure a 200 quid council tax rebate will apease the pensioners who after all have seen increases in excess of that recently. And why doesn't he just tax them 200 quid less to start with. Once the legendary beurocracy he has created has administrated that 200 quid, then its probably cost a couple of grand. And its only a one off rebate, as was the winter fuel payment 'increase' last year.
If you read the 300 odd page PDF file available there are a few eye openers in it, for example income tax as a % of GDP, 2003-4 was 10.6%, 2009/10 estimate 12% - thats a 13% rise in income tax as a % of GDP.
National insurance reciepts 2003-4 £72bn, 2005-6 estimate £82bn.
Stamp Duty 2003-4 7.5bn, 2005-6 estimate, £10bn - pretty difficult to do in a shrinking market, unless.......
Oh yes and lets not forget the little fiddle of raising benefits in line with 'earnings' i.e. 5% per year, but only raising my tax allowance in line with 'inflation' which magically appears to be only 1 or 2 % again, despite the fact that everything has gone up in price alot more than that. More lefty distribution of wealth going on there.
Oh well, no doubt most people will moan about it, but still vote the tossers back in.
I'm not sure a 200 quid council tax rebate will apease the pensioners who after all have seen increases in excess of that recently. And why doesn't he just tax them 200 quid less to start with. Once the legendary beurocracy he has created has administrated that 200 quid, then its probably cost a couple of grand. And its only a one off rebate, as was the winter fuel payment 'increase' last year.
If you read the 300 odd page PDF file available there are a few eye openers in it, for example income tax as a % of GDP, 2003-4 was 10.6%, 2009/10 estimate 12% - thats a 13% rise in income tax as a % of GDP.
National insurance reciepts 2003-4 £72bn, 2005-6 estimate £82bn.
Stamp Duty 2003-4 7.5bn, 2005-6 estimate, £10bn - pretty difficult to do in a shrinking market, unless.......
Oh yes and lets not forget the little fiddle of raising benefits in line with 'earnings' i.e. 5% per year, but only raising my tax allowance in line with 'inflation' which magically appears to be only 1 or 2 % again, despite the fact that everything has gone up in price alot more than that. More lefty distribution of wealth going on there.
Oh well, no doubt most people will moan about it, but still vote the tossers back in.
Trevethan
Well-Known Member
One interesting thing is that he is writing to the EU to the value of tax free imports from outside Europe from £145 to £1,000, making a lot more U.S. chandlery import duty exempt. I guess the VAT will still have to be paid though.
AlexL
Well-Known Member
Thats very good! And very true!
ShipsWoofy
Well-Known Member
I think that is only your personal allowance, i.e. hand luggage.
If you mail order you still get stung for the whole lot.
I think...
If you mail order you still get stung for the whole lot.
I think...
ShipsWoofy
Well-Known Member
Re: Nah!
If he really wanted to make vote catcher, he could have left stamp duty at £60,000 and made it an allowance, so you only pay duty after the threshold, so a £90,000 would incur a tax on £30,000 or £300.
We were discussing this yesterday, at the current level of housing for family homes, this makes zero difference. It is the emptiest gesture I have seen from this shambles thus far. It will cost the treasury next to nothing, completely full of hot air.
The council tax reassessment scares the willies, I bought a cheap house in '95. Then everyone around here decided that actually this is quite a nice area and the prices have gone nuts. My house is now worth 3½ what I paid. I am going to be crucified, yet I did not move.
If he really wanted to make vote catcher, he could have left stamp duty at £60,000 and made it an allowance, so you only pay duty after the threshold, so a £90,000 would incur a tax on £30,000 or £300.
We were discussing this yesterday, at the current level of housing for family homes, this makes zero difference. It is the emptiest gesture I have seen from this shambles thus far. It will cost the treasury next to nothing, completely full of hot air.
The council tax reassessment scares the willies, I bought a cheap house in '95. Then everyone around here decided that actually this is quite a nice area and the prices have gone nuts. My house is now worth 3½ what I paid. I am going to be crucified, yet I did not move.
AlexL
Well-Known Member
Re: Nah!
Quite agree - the stamp duty should be cumulative, not all or nothing, the 1 to 3% jump at 250k is causiing all sorts of problems and artificial ceilings in the market. however I'm not sure that the rise to 120k will be totally inefectual - 150k would have been better - but right now in most parts of essex the housing market is dead, there are alot of conditional buyers around, but putting chains together is proving all but impossible. If this stamp duty thing just kicks the bottom of the chain together then it may have an effect.
Quite agree - the stamp duty should be cumulative, not all or nothing, the 1 to 3% jump at 250k is causiing all sorts of problems and artificial ceilings in the market. however I'm not sure that the rise to 120k will be totally inefectual - 150k would have been better - but right now in most parts of essex the housing market is dead, there are alot of conditional buyers around, but putting chains together is proving all but impossible. If this stamp duty thing just kicks the bottom of the chain together then it may have an effect.
Sans Bateau
Well-Known Member
Re: Nah!
There are going to be many (lets hope not too many) who will see uncle Gordon with his pre election budget, as 'such a nice man', 'lets vote nice Mr B Liar back in'. There may be detail benefits to certain people; but my overriding fear is that yesterday’s budget will influence a lot of undecided voters.
The country IS on the edge of a catastrophe. For the last 7 months business has slowed up, alarmingly. My own experience is supported by several independent sources. The reduced numbers at the LIBS was not because of Excel. Sparks marina (home of Bavaria (Opal)), is wall to wall with new yachts. Orders? No. I have been told that the importer is sitting on £7 million worth of unsold and cancelled order boats! Just look at the ads in YM this month at Opals effort to shift the stock.
Are there any connections, or is this just coincidence?
Another Labour turn, we will all pay, big time.
There are going to be many (lets hope not too many) who will see uncle Gordon with his pre election budget, as 'such a nice man', 'lets vote nice Mr B Liar back in'. There may be detail benefits to certain people; but my overriding fear is that yesterday’s budget will influence a lot of undecided voters.
The country IS on the edge of a catastrophe. For the last 7 months business has slowed up, alarmingly. My own experience is supported by several independent sources. The reduced numbers at the LIBS was not because of Excel. Sparks marina (home of Bavaria (Opal)), is wall to wall with new yachts. Orders? No. I have been told that the importer is sitting on £7 million worth of unsold and cancelled order boats! Just look at the ads in YM this month at Opals effort to shift the stock.
Are there any connections, or is this just coincidence?
Another Labour turn, we will all pay, big time.
ColinW
Well-Known Member
Re: Nah!
I think he's a very nice man. At the end of the day it doesn't matter how many taxes, hidden or otherwise, I am paying now, that some of money pales into insignificance compared to what I was paying as mortgage interest under the Conservatives (in particular Nigel Lawson). Gordon Brown gave the bank of England control over interest rates and I for one will always be grateful for that. I don't even mind Tony Blair, compared to Thatcher & her inept successors he's positvely harmless.
I think he's a very nice man. At the end of the day it doesn't matter how many taxes, hidden or otherwise, I am paying now, that some of money pales into insignificance compared to what I was paying as mortgage interest under the Conservatives (in particular Nigel Lawson). Gordon Brown gave the bank of England control over interest rates and I for one will always be grateful for that. I don't even mind Tony Blair, compared to Thatcher & her inept successors he's positvely harmless.
TheBoatman
Well-Known Member
Government Issues new Credit Card!
In yesterdays budget speech GB issued what can best be described as the new GB Cedit Card. He can use it on the same basis as any other credit card i.e. buy now pay later. The only difference is that he can spend but we have to pay!!!!
God help us?
In my small business I'm about to attempt to batten down the hatches in the vain hope I can survive. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
In yesterdays budget speech GB issued what can best be described as the new GB Cedit Card. He can use it on the same basis as any other credit card i.e. buy now pay later. The only difference is that he can spend but we have to pay!!!!
God help us?
In my small business I'm about to attempt to batten down the hatches in the vain hope I can survive. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
mirabriani
Well-Known Member
Re: Nah!
"For the last seven months business has slowed up alarmingly"
Agreed! My shop has needed support for that period, to the detriment of my credit cards. I am at present working out just how much it has cost
What is even worse is that my business has been little affected by ups and downs in the past.
What is going wrong ?
Regards Briani
"For the last seven months business has slowed up alarmingly"
Agreed! My shop has needed support for that period, to the detriment of my credit cards. I am at present working out just how much it has cost
What is even worse is that my business has been little affected by ups and downs in the past.
What is going wrong ?
Regards Briani
Stemar
Well-Known Member
Re: Nah!
Interest rates world-wide were sky-high under Thatcher. There're now at a historically low rate world-wide. It's got nothing to do with GB.
IMHO, Brown & BLiar are benefitting from the foundations the Conservatives laid. Other countries in Europe are doing a lot worse than the UK now precisely because they didn't go through the restructuring that was brought about by A Scargill and others in the '80s.
No I'm not a Tory. I am a conservative, (small c) in the sense that my values - self-reliance, honesty, mutual respect, etc., seem to be old fashioned now. I think I'll be voting tactically this time. I'd vote for the Monster Raving Loony Party if I thought it would get rid of the current monstrous bunch of loony ravers
Interest rates world-wide were sky-high under Thatcher. There're now at a historically low rate world-wide. It's got nothing to do with GB.
IMHO, Brown & BLiar are benefitting from the foundations the Conservatives laid. Other countries in Europe are doing a lot worse than the UK now precisely because they didn't go through the restructuring that was brought about by A Scargill and others in the '80s.
No I'm not a Tory. I am a conservative, (small c) in the sense that my values - self-reliance, honesty, mutual respect, etc., seem to be old fashioned now. I think I'll be voting tactically this time. I'd vote for the Monster Raving Loony Party if I thought it would get rid of the current monstrous bunch of loony ravers
AlexL
Well-Known Member
Re: Nah!
what is going wrong is that the british public have had an orgy of consumer spending, fueled entirely by a increase in debt with no appreciable increase in actual wealth. Unlike where people are spending wealth, there is a limit to how much debt can be spent and it appears this limit has been reached., so the spending has come to a shuddering halt. A previous poster alluded to the low mortage payments and interest rates, and these are indeed good, but the associated house price chaos is going to cause just as many problems as the 80's interest rates did, so its not all wine and roses.
Now not all of this is Gordons fault, however he needs to admit that is has happened and bad times are ahead, and he has rather rashly comitted himself to massive increases in expenditure and taxation at the very time when the economy is about to go horrlby wrong. When the house price, consumer spending and manufacturing recessions start to take effect, the chanceller will also find himself having to raise taxes to pay for his 'buy now pay later' public services, at the very time when he will need to reduce taxes to stimulate buisness and the economy.
As has been said, batten down the hatches.
what is going wrong is that the british public have had an orgy of consumer spending, fueled entirely by a increase in debt with no appreciable increase in actual wealth. Unlike where people are spending wealth, there is a limit to how much debt can be spent and it appears this limit has been reached., so the spending has come to a shuddering halt. A previous poster alluded to the low mortage payments and interest rates, and these are indeed good, but the associated house price chaos is going to cause just as many problems as the 80's interest rates did, so its not all wine and roses.
Now not all of this is Gordons fault, however he needs to admit that is has happened and bad times are ahead, and he has rather rashly comitted himself to massive increases in expenditure and taxation at the very time when the economy is about to go horrlby wrong. When the house price, consumer spending and manufacturing recessions start to take effect, the chanceller will also find himself having to raise taxes to pay for his 'buy now pay later' public services, at the very time when he will need to reduce taxes to stimulate buisness and the economy.
As has been said, batten down the hatches.
Sans Bateau
Well-Known Member
Re: Nah!
The economy is being artificialy boosted by government spending, it looks good on paper, but as you say, business IS BAD!
When the government 'credit card' is full, who knows! Just brace yourself.
The custard may be boiling nicely on the surface, but already it is burning at the bottom of the pan.
The economy is being artificialy boosted by government spending, it looks good on paper, but as you say, business IS BAD!
When the government 'credit card' is full, who knows! Just brace yourself.
The custard may be boiling nicely on the surface, but already it is burning at the bottom of the pan.
BlueSkyNick
Well-Known Member
Re: Nah!
[ QUOTE ]
Interest rates world-wide were sky-high under Thatcher. There're now at a historically low rate world-wide. It's got nothing to do with GB.
IMHO, Brown & BLiar are benefitting from the foundations the Conservatives laid. Other countries in Europe are doing a lot worse than the UK now precisely because they didn't go through the restructuring that was brought about by A Scargill and others in the '80s.
[/ QUOTE ]
My sentiments, entirely.
Plus I am so tired of governments pouring more and more money into NHS and other public services just for political headlines, without any significant improvements in the service provided, that I have given up caring.
Finally, the devil is usually in the detail, not the speech. I need to see the small print regarding taxation of small companies, (IR35, husband and wives dividends etc) to decide if I am affected in any way.
[ QUOTE ]
Interest rates world-wide were sky-high under Thatcher. There're now at a historically low rate world-wide. It's got nothing to do with GB.
IMHO, Brown & BLiar are benefitting from the foundations the Conservatives laid. Other countries in Europe are doing a lot worse than the UK now precisely because they didn't go through the restructuring that was brought about by A Scargill and others in the '80s.
[/ QUOTE ]
My sentiments, entirely.
Plus I am so tired of governments pouring more and more money into NHS and other public services just for political headlines, without any significant improvements in the service provided, that I have given up caring.
Finally, the devil is usually in the detail, not the speech. I need to see the small print regarding taxation of small companies, (IR35, husband and wives dividends etc) to decide if I am affected in any way.
fireball
Well-Known Member
Re: Nah!
When the options are the conservative Torys or the conservative New Labour .... what can you do?
Does his budget relfect on the higher than inflation increases of council tax?
There is a fundemental flaw in LG budgets - you have to spend ALL your budget to get an increase approved in the following year ... so where is the incentive for LG to stop spending so much money?
When the options are the conservative Torys or the conservative New Labour .... what can you do?
Does his budget relfect on the higher than inflation increases of council tax?
There is a fundemental flaw in LG budgets - you have to spend ALL your budget to get an increase approved in the following year ... so where is the incentive for LG to stop spending so much money?
AlexL
Well-Known Member
Re: Nah!
[ QUOTE ]
IMHO, Brown & BLiar are benefitting from the foundations the Conservatives laid. Other countries in Europe are doing a lot worse than the UK now precisely because they didn't go through the restructuring that was brought about by A Scargill and others in the '80s.
[/ QUOTE ]
quite . Pessimist pasted a link earlier, but heres the text from the link. Meant a little tongue in cheek I think, but very very true.
UK Chancellor Gordon Brown introduced his budget speech yesterday with a preamble showing how well the UK economy had been doing. Owing to time pressure he was not able to include and thank all those who had contributed to this strong performance. Here is the section he did not have space to deliver:
In pointing to 50 successive quarters of economic growth, I would like to thank the previous Conservative government under which the first 19 of those growth quarters occurred, and which set Britain on the road to economic success.
I would like especially to thank Margaret Thatcher, who with great effort and courage gave us a flexible labour market and an adaptable economy. This has enabled us to move to high value service industries and adjust to a decline in manufacturing. I thank her especially for doing this despite the total opposition of my own party.
Thanks are also due to British businesses, most of which have struggled to bear the extra load of taxation and regulation I imposed upon them, yet still manage to survive and even to prosper.
The Chinese deserve my special thanks for helping to keep down inflation. By supplying us with low cost products, they have held down prices and helped us avert upward pressure on wages. And their demand for energy has boosted the revenues we derive from our North Sea oil.
Our French and German partners are to be thanked for piling extra costs upon their own businesses, and making ours more competitive by contrast. The investment which has come to Britain instead of to them I particularly appreciate.
And of course I must thank the British taxpayers who have paid all of my stealth taxes and seen their own burden rise. More of them than ever before have been swept into higher tax rates, inheritance tax and stamp duty. Tax Freedom Day now comes several days later as they struggle to pay the government’s increased portion of the economy. I thank them.
Without all of these brave contributions, the UK’s economic success would not have been possible; and I am duly grateful.
[ QUOTE ]
IMHO, Brown & BLiar are benefitting from the foundations the Conservatives laid. Other countries in Europe are doing a lot worse than the UK now precisely because they didn't go through the restructuring that was brought about by A Scargill and others in the '80s.
[/ QUOTE ]
quite . Pessimist pasted a link earlier, but heres the text from the link. Meant a little tongue in cheek I think, but very very true.
UK Chancellor Gordon Brown introduced his budget speech yesterday with a preamble showing how well the UK economy had been doing. Owing to time pressure he was not able to include and thank all those who had contributed to this strong performance. Here is the section he did not have space to deliver:
In pointing to 50 successive quarters of economic growth, I would like to thank the previous Conservative government under which the first 19 of those growth quarters occurred, and which set Britain on the road to economic success.
I would like especially to thank Margaret Thatcher, who with great effort and courage gave us a flexible labour market and an adaptable economy. This has enabled us to move to high value service industries and adjust to a decline in manufacturing. I thank her especially for doing this despite the total opposition of my own party.
Thanks are also due to British businesses, most of which have struggled to bear the extra load of taxation and regulation I imposed upon them, yet still manage to survive and even to prosper.
The Chinese deserve my special thanks for helping to keep down inflation. By supplying us with low cost products, they have held down prices and helped us avert upward pressure on wages. And their demand for energy has boosted the revenues we derive from our North Sea oil.
Our French and German partners are to be thanked for piling extra costs upon their own businesses, and making ours more competitive by contrast. The investment which has come to Britain instead of to them I particularly appreciate.
And of course I must thank the British taxpayers who have paid all of my stealth taxes and seen their own burden rise. More of them than ever before have been swept into higher tax rates, inheritance tax and stamp duty. Tax Freedom Day now comes several days later as they struggle to pay the government’s increased portion of the economy. I thank them.
Without all of these brave contributions, the UK’s economic success would not have been possible; and I am duly grateful.
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