BSS Query, unclear in the documents.

[yacht surveyor]

You only disconnect it for the test eg 20 minutes Doh!!!

You would be surprised what I come across in surveys.

I have come across what I described on a number of boats I have surveyed. I have also come across others which would fail the BSS as presented for survey!

 

[yacht surveyor]

That's interesting. So what you are saying is if you comply with the statutory BSS regulations, your insurance company will not insure you?

I would love to see that one challenged in court!

That is an interesting and extreme interpretation of what I said.

What I was saying is that if people intend to comply to the BSS by removing or disabling essential equipment like the bilge pump, then your insurance company is more than likely to take that into account when deciding what they will pay out on in case of accident. I did this check this with a number of senior marine insurance claims managers recently and they said that the cover is likely to be reduced if the bilge pump is wilfully disabled. People should check their policy wording. Some will no longer cover machinery damage in if the bilge pump has been disabled for example. An easy position to defend in court.

Edited to add: Obviously applies for a flooding incident.

Best that folks know that are likely to be consequences for this type of action - hence my post.

 

[JKay]

I wouldn't be surprised I'm constantly amazed at some peoples lack of logic
I think my favourite is the "I'll connect my anchor when I need to type"
whilst I agree with The BSS their are some things that are utter rowlocks ,on my boat the gas is in the anchor locker and has a drain hole of 3/4" and a surveyor asked me to drill another hole in the hull in case it was blocked by a leaf(havn't seen any trees in the Wash) ! So he was fired and the next was old school with common sense and passed it straight away
The other one is the advisory I always get is on ventilation as we always sleep with the hatch open and have CO and smoke monitors on board

 

[nrbx]

Hi,

Following on from a few comments, I am waiting on the BSS people to get back to me.

In essense if i blocked up the 2 small drains at each end which would be easy i guess it would hold around 7-15 litres before overflowing, however the BSS states it must be able to hold the entire sump which that would not.

A quick picture of my issue, you can see the big holes from under each engine in to the main bilge.

I think what i will do is go for a filtered 800 gph pump, found a filter that will satisfy the oil filter amount at up to 1200 gph for £195. And then put the big one above, or if they have a real issue with that i might just put that in after the exam.

And yes i know i need to do some engine painting, it is ON the list, all be it about a months worth down the list.

Will let you all know what the bss say.

Worst case i guess i will need to block up those big holes to about 5 cm height to comply.

 

[yacht surveyor]

Hi Everyone, particually the majority of you who know more than me!

I am getting my boat ready for a BSS (British Safety Scheme) and I have everything covered bar one aspect.

My engines have trays, in essense under the engines, but there are 8 drain holes from these in to the main bilge.

I understand i either have to fill all these holes or put a filter on my bilge pump.

The easiest and cheapest option would be to filter, however the cost of filters to cope with 3700 gph is absolutly mad.

Would it be acceptable to mount a filtered 800 gph general use bilge pump, and then the 3700 gpm pump about 8-10cm higher to come on only if the 800 gph can't cope and be unfiltered.

Clearly this would be safest and most reliable as we all know the filter will clogg up pretty quick in the event of a serious leak.

So the question is, will this method pass the BSS?

I have no gas on board, so i assume the main other things to do are, fire extinguishers, copper pipe to the eberspatchers, and labels where needed?

Many thanks in advance!

Why don't you just ask the examiner? It would settle it for you and help you determine which route will work best.

In the end it is the examiner who will be signing off your certificate.

Martin

 

[nrbx]

Right well i had a reply, and it hasn't helped at all.
I feel somehow that he may be far too highly ranked to have bothered to read what my questions really were...


Query 1

I am in the process of getting my boat ready for its BSS examination and have been investigating my engine bay and bilge pumps.
The engine bay is a sealed entity from the rest of the boat, and we have a 3700 gph bilge pump in it.
Each engine has a “tray” under it, but there are large holes that feed in to the main bilge from there, and it’s capacity before overflow would not hold the entire sump of each engine.

I don’t wish to invest £1800 + for a filter that can cope with 3700 gph, I also don’t want to end up sinking and creating more pollution because the oil filter became saturated and at those flow levels this could happen very fast.

What i was thinking of doing therefore was to mount a small 800 gph bilge pump with an oil filter in the bottom of the bilge, and then the 3700 gph pump around 5-6cm higher without a filter to come on only if the 800 gph pump could not cope with the leak.

Would this be acceptable as a method of ensuring the boat’s safety afloat while still filtering all the general pump outs from the bilge?
The holes from the engine trays to the bilge are around 30cm diameter each x 4 per side, so it won’t be realistic to block these up.

In relation to the BSS check for bilge pumps.
This is check 9.1.2
This check specifies that all discharge from a fixed bilge pump located in engine tray or oil tight area must go through a bilge water filter with a performance of 5ppm.
The examiner will look to see,
· If it is a fixed bilge pump
· The output goes either to a holding tank or through a suitable filter before its discharged.
The “tray” with holes will not be counted as a tray for the purpose of this test so the examiner will be looking for a “oil tight area” under the engine and gearbox that the fixed bilge pump removes fluid from.
If your set up meets the above requirement then it will pass the test.

Query 2 - Heating

My final question is regarding my diesel heaters, they are currently installed with plastic pipe, and taken from the top of the fuel tank. One heater however is lower than the top level of the fuel tanks.
I am aware i will need to change this pipe to copper, but i was wondering if it is possible to join this copper pipe to the fuel pump / heater using a small rubber pipe to allow for vibration movement and ease of connection, if so can you advise of what i should be looking for to use standards wise for this.

I am a little concerned about your diesel heater feed, you say they are currently installed with plastic pipe Do you mean plastic pipe if so then they will fail the BSS check.2.10.1 as plastic is unsuitable no matter its location.
Yes you can provide a suitable mechanism to relieve any vibration or movement and we recommend contacting the heater manufacture to see if they can supply a marine installation kit or have suitable installation instructions for boats.

This bit i did enjoy..

I hope this helps

Regards

P***** R******
Quality and Technical Manager.

So yes i am no closer to really knowing what to do despite asking the BSS guys, it is worrying that people who can't read are making up these rules.

 

[neale]

You can use small sections of rubber pipe to connect the copper to the pump and heater unit. Some examiners will want to see ISO 7840 marked on each of those small bits. Others may not, but to be safe it is best to get marked hose.

With regards to the bilge pump, the 'Fixed' word might be your get out of jail card. Have a fixed 800gph pump going through a bilge filter and have a bigger pump plumbed in and available for use but not fixed down, ie a wandering bilge pump.

One of the examiners I spoke to said this would be acceptable, but again it depends who you get.

Personally I think your original idea is well within the spirit of the BSS and if you delayed fitting the higher powered unit until after the examination I think morally you could rest easy. The idea of this regulation is that if your engine dumps its entire oil contents into the bilge, the pump should not pump it overboard. As long as your 5-6cm leaves enough capacity in the bilge to hold your engines oil contents, plus a little bit more for the usual amount of water you might get in your bilge, it succeeds in the same way that an oil tray would.

 

[nrbx]

Yeps,

I'm just going to mount the filtered 800 for now and then perhaps add the other one just before it goes back in the water.

Got someone quoting to block up the holes anyway as that would keep the oil out of my bilge which i prefer anyway! Saves having to gas myself with acetone too often then

Thank you for clarifying the heating pipe part!

 

[rafiki_]

Have you tried talking to Philip at the BSS? I found it very useful discussing thisngs with him, then sending though a drawing or pic if requested. I found him very knowledgeable, sensible and appeared to want to help.