Brokers, Pride, Lazy and Apathetic.

[ShipsWoofy]

I have put this in the lounge to attract MOBO (smelly diesel stained lot) and raggies (fresh, meadow aroma) as it affects both.

Why are brokers so bad?

I have a lot of pride in what I do, when working I had pride in helping people and getting my work right. It did not matter if I was mending a net on a dock wall or working on RF equipment under a microscope, I wanted to get it right and feel good at the end of it.

Yet across all the boards we hear of brokers sat reading a paper and throwing keys at potential customers, customers who could very likely feed that broker for a few months if they buy to their absolute limit.

Did these brokers start as helpful useful bods and end up the miserable sack of waste in the portacabin, or is it the 'types' that become brokers. I have an image, if it was me, I would get quite excited trying to match new people with a boat, look sir, we have such and such just come on, from what you say I think, no, come and have a look. No, well over here we have...

When would I become the sack of lard expecting a living from patient punters?

Thoughts anyone?

 

[Wansworth]

There must be hundreds of reasons why someone decides to sell yachts,its quite a niche market in relation to food,cars essential goods etc,definately a job where personel attention pays off,maybe they thought it was going to be easierto gety the percentageor maybe they inherited the business off trheir dadand are dreaming all the time of being a rock star or maybe they have become pissed off by quirky owners and wannabe buyers!

 

[ChrisE]

Owners and buyers, the brokers nightmare

I've said it before, I think that this image is to do with us, not them. They are dealing with peoples' dreams and commercial logic goes out of the window. Long may it remain so, if we applied the same logic to our hobby as we do our commercial life I doubt that there would be many boats sold. I've met people that are trying to sell their MAB40, worth about £90k tops for about £150k, believing that theirs is special when a quick look around the market place would have told them that they were whistling in the wind.

FWIW the brokers I have dealt with have been reasonable people and I certainly wouldn't want to do their job when the 30th customer of the day comes in and says I'd like a craft for RTW and I've got a budget of £15k. I'm not defending all of them, I'm sure that there are some right lazy boogers, like in any field, just trying to see it from both sides.

 

[ShipsWoofy]

Re: Owners and buyers, the brokers nightmare

Yes there are dreamers, but surely this could not have come as a complete shock to the broker. How many times do we hear of people with cash walking away due to the apathy of the broker.

This man is being unfair to both seller and buyer and himself, I just wonder why?

And why it seems more brokers are this way than actually helpful, do you not find that odd.

 

[beancounter]

It takes all sorts...

...we met all points along the broker spectrum whilst boat hunting this year. From a purely personal point of view, I actually prefer to be given the keys and left to it. For one thing, it makes it easier to climb straight back out of the boat that looks like the proverbial woof-woof. It's also a lot easier to discuss/argue about the various features of the boat without the broker trying to "sell" it to you.
What does distress me is when the broker answers a question about the boat with "I dunno - I haven't even seen that one..."

 

[Mirelle]

Brokers, cynical

I know two brokers quite well.

One is in the very grandest area of the market, purveying megayachts to multimillionaires; the other deals rather more often in MABs.

Both are supremely cynical about the boat buying public, and will tell horror stories at the drop of a hat...

...such as the BBC celebrity who put their boat on the market leaving the heads blocked...

...and mere stripping of the inventory by the seller after the deposit has been paid is apparently commonplace...

...as for buyers I gather they are if anything even worse...

 

[absit_omen]

Re: It takes all sorts...

.........or having made an appointment in Alicante to view a 700k euro boat with a seriously buying friend, be told upon arrival 120 miles later "sorry, my colleague has the keys and he is in Madrid".

 

[cardinal_mark]

Like Beancounter we met all sorts whilst looking around. Not all bad I have to say - indeed some were extremely helpful and motivated but this tended to be the smaller, privately owned operations who were 'hungry' rathr than just going through the motions for a larger outfit.

The thing I loved most was having some kind of Saturday boy scrabble around for the keys, give some vague wave to indicate where the boat might be then wait for me to come back after a 500 yard walk to enquire, as I tend not to carry my own, if they might have a ladder! IMHO, a visit to a well known brokerage in Swanwick is the best place for this type of treatment if you fancy it!

The other extreme can also be a little off-putting. Try getting away from the Maxi's at Hamble Point - I'd take a packed lunch if I went again! To their credit, those guys really do work the pitch and if I was a seller I'd be chuffed at their terrior like attitude to the sale.

In the end though it was the boat that decided it for me - and it wouldn't have made a jot of difference who the broker was or how he or she treated me (within reason!). As it happens, we bought through a one man operation in Lymington and had little but praise for the way he conducted the whole deal from viewing to completion.

Mark

 

[Chris_Robb]

name of Alan Bordon by any chance?

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Again, like Beancounter and Cardinal_Mark, we met all sorts..... but sadly, more biased towards the 'who gives a damn' end of the scale.....

We did to my eternal dissapointment find that once we'd signed the contract, all interest vanished..... getting information from the previous owner via the broker about really minor things immediatey prior to handover, like 'when was the impellor last changed?' or 'what antifoul is on there?' proved very difficult (but actually quite important to a new owner) , and in the end we had to force the broker to give us the previous owners contact details.....

We did also sign the initial contract subject to both survey and written inventory, and received shocking service on getting the inventory, including initially being fobbed off by being sent the sales flyer with the usual short summary on the reverse, then being sent a hurried typed up exact repeat of the flyer via e-mail..... we had to threaten to pull out in order to get a proper inventory.... It wasn't that we were being fussy, it was that the flyer said for example, 'includes several spare sails'... given that there was quite a few sails onboard, with two kites and a cruising chute in the pile, I wanted to confirm that they were included.... it didn't mention the autopilot onboard etc etc.....

I was generally unimpressed, and when it comes to it, I will make all efforts to sell my boat privately, set up a really nice on line advert/site with lots of pictures, a detailed inventory, construct an 'owners manual' with detail on as much of the gained knowledge that we will have such as where to source replacement impellors, electric circuit diagrams, age of batteries, how to manage the electrical master switch/isolators for best charging results, etc etc... personally, I think that is the way to convince people to buy your boat... sell it at the right price, and then avoid being knocked down too much by being incredibly supportive and helpful.... and make it less difficult for a new owner....

.....and I just don't see how our experience of a broker justified their (in my sellers case) £1520 fee....

 

[Guest]

Re: Brokers, Pride, Lazy and Apathetic.... %age is too high ??

If they had to work at other products % commissions instead of the inflated amounts they apply .... a few sales are enough to cover costs .... so you and me are not important .....

Drag down those %ages to more realistic levels and they will have to work for their money .....

Magazines like Boats and Outboards etc. are there because Brokers price themselves out of the market on most second-hand boats and especially lower end of the market ....

Look at figures .......

8% of 10,000 = £800

8% of 100,000 = £8,000 for similar work ... What would you do ?

Now reduce that to more realistic levels the margins start to get more interesting and lower end market boats gain importance ...................

I cannot for commercial obligations and legal reasons actually give exact figures .......... but if a broker is involved with new boats as well, then secondhand boats are his VERY poor relation .... they do not come close to revenue unless HR's etc.

OK - lets put it this way .... compare two products :>

House to sell ... visit Estate Agents - they bite your arm wanting your biz ........... they will fight to have your house on sole agency etc. They are aggressive ....

Boat to sell .... what a different story ................. QED

 

[doris]

I disagree with some of the comments about size. At the mom I am looking and the most informed and helpful broker I have found is the branch of the biggest, 1st letter of alphabet, in Puerto Solenti. I am finding most of the lesser fry woefully ignorant and appathetic.

 

[Windfall]

The most surprising response we had from a broker was when he told us that vendor was a complete W!*£K$R who should just give us the boat.....needless to say we won't be going back there when we want to move on!

But I have to say in my experience brokers are generally pretty poor with one or two noteable exceptions.

 

[absit_omen]

The broker from whom I bought my last boat kindly informed my by phone that there were still two outstanding mortgages on her. This was six hours after I had handed over the full amount.

It took another four months of wrangling with Cardiff before I finally legally owned the boat. At any moment during the intervening time the boat could have been re-possessed.

 

[cardinal_mark]

[ QUOTE ]
name of Alan Bordon by any chance?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, the broker we bought through was Andy Hind.

Mark

 

[wooslehunter]

Hopefully a few brokers read this forum since market feedback is a great way to compare yourself to the competition - I suspect only the good ones do though.

There's absolutely no excuse for poor service in any business. Sellers & buyers should vote with their feet. As a buyer a few years ago, I now have experience of quite a few bad brokers a one or two good (well goodish) ones. Due to past experience I'll try to sell myself if I can.

Here's an example of the worst. Boat looks OK & we negotiate a price. I pay the deposit and sign a contract subject to survey and sea trial. Broker is instructed not to do anything until the survey is complete. Survey goes ahead and I drop out due to lots of faults. In between, the broker moves the boat ready for launch and trial. Then he tries to charge me for doing this even though I'd specifically told him not to. After much wrangling I got the deposit back in full with a letter banning me from the marina and brokerage.

In my business I deal with everyone from students with nothing to spend to engineers who could easily design in a few million $ of product. Although the students don't get the same treatment as the guys with real cash, they do get treated well. The logic is that next year the same guy may be working with a big customer. He'll remember the company who treated him well. I've always operated on this priciple and surprise surprise it works.

So brokers out there. Just because someone isn't buying a big boat today, it doesn't meen that a couple of years later, he won't be spending loads. Think about it. Your market is VERY competitive.

Rant over.

 

[doris]

How about naming that broker and also telling us,with the benefit of hindsight, how to avoid the mortgage situation you found yourself in. PM me if you think that better. I am paranoid of getting caught like that!

 

[andyball]

Eek - that's bad - how can a broker ban you from the marina?

name 'em - or at least put a postcode.


btw - we see Paddington around a bit - are you still sailing over the winter?

 

[bob_tyler]

I bought my boat directly from the owner. He had the sense to place an A4 notice with a good picture and description in a local busy farm shop on a main road. The boat was Part 1 Regd.and had no mortgage registered (I checked with Cardiff). He provided me with a recent survey from a well known local surveyor, who I would have appointed anyway, which pointed out the condition, warts and all.

After a trial sail I negotiated the price. The boat was well presented and all extras were on show. Or so I thought. After completing he said "By the way, call at my house as I have a few bits in my garage". I did so and came away with a good £500 of extras that I didn't even know were included /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

He didn't have to pay a brokerage fee so nor did I (indirectly)

I had stopped to buy a few good fresh Cornish veg and some eggs and ended up with a boat!

 

[David_Jersey]

[ QUOTE ]
The logic is that next year the same guy may be working with a big customer. He'll remember the company who treated him well. I've always operated on this priciple and surprise surprise it works.


[/ QUOTE ]

Will second this.

I find at least trying to think more than a week ahead does tend to help. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif