Broker concern

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Fjord John

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Hi, I just brought a stock boat from a broker. Upon viewing the engine and bilges were very clean. You could eat your dinner off the bilges. The surveyor did spot a small sweep of oil from the engine but it was barely visible at the time - so I agreed it wasn’t an issue. But upon return from our first trip after completion, oil was dripping down the side of the engine into the bilges, messing up all the prep work done by the broker and causing me great concern. The broker has reinspected the engine and said there is nothing they can do, the oil leak is what they would expect from a late 80s BMC. What are my rights in this situation and what should I do next?
 
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I don't think you have any rights. Buyer beware. You had a survey done and chose not to look further at the oil leak. You can't say that they should have told they had cleaned it up before you saw it - we all do that don't we. Same when you sell your house, painting over a damp patch etc. Perhaps you should have had a engine trial in the water.

Where is the oil leak coming from? may not be a major issue.
 
As a consumer you have lots of rights. Ie if a car isn’t right then you can just give it back and get your money back.
Probably easier said than done but here is the act below
Probably look at the right to reject if you want rid?

Consumer Rights Act 2015
 
Soco2 said:
As a consumer you have lots of rights. Ie if a car isn’t right then you can just give it back and get your money back.
Probably easier said than done but here is the act below
Probably look at the right to reject if you want rid?

Consumer Rights Act 2015
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I'm no legal expert, but I suspect that if you bought a nineteen eighties Vauxhall Cavalier or some such from a dealer and then discovered it had a bit of an oil leak, you'd have a battle on your hands just returning it for a full refund.
 
ari said:
I'm no legal expert, but I suspect that if you bought a nineteen eighties Vauxhall Cavalier or some such from a dealer and then discovered it had a bit of an oil leak, you'd have a battle on your hands just returning it for a full refund.
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All depends if it is fit for purpose. An oil leak is a bit of a subjective issue and it's hard to judge if it's fit for purpose from the info provided.
 
petem said:
All depends if it is fit for purpose. An oil leak is a bit of a subjective issue and it's hard to judge if it's fit for purpose from the info provided.
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It's Brit built isn't it? Observation would indicate they are meant to leak.

However I do not agree with Moodysaber. Yes we all clean up before a sell, however cleaning up to disguise and hide a fault more than hints at deceit and deception. I would say the OP is within his rights as it's a broker boat to have them replace whatever leaky seal etc that it is unless the boat specifically is sold As Seen, project or whatever clause excludes him from doing so. No engine should leak oil.
To the OP it may be worthwhile bearing in mind that especially if your bilge holds a bit of water a little oil can go a long way in looking like a major catastrophe when in essence it is so minor as not to be worth repairing re cost. My own will dribble maybe 50 ml over a season through unfiltered crank vents (by design) and a dodgy seal from a oil cooler hose that will dribble two drops a trip and due for a maintenance replacement, and that 50ml is the absolute bane of my life in a partially wet bilge. Old engines are prone to leaking and some give and take from yourself should be considered.
 
Fyord John said:
Hi, I just brought a stock boat from a broker. Upon viewing the engine and bilges were very clean. You could eat your dinner off the bilges. The surveyor did spot a small sweep of oil from the engine but it was barely visible at the time - so I agreed it wasn’t an issue. But upon return from our first trip after completion, oil was dripping down the side of the engine into the bilges, messing up all the prep work done by the broker and causing me great concern. The broker has reinspected the engine and said there is nothing they can do, the oil leak is what they would expect from a late 80s BMC. What are my rights in this situation and what should I do next?
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If it’s a stock boat owned by the seller , ie the company you paid your money too then you have a right to ask them to put it right , I’d say that they knew there was a leak as they had prepped the boat for sale , they must have pumped an amount of oil out to make the engine bay clean for your surveyor to inspect .
As you have it in writing from your surveyor I’d contact your insurer , you will have legal cover to fight your case.
I’d put this in writing to the broker, company .
Mention you have legal cover , they won’t want to be paying legal fees to fight there side .

Be nice if you told us who they are that way anyone else can be aware of there actions in a deal.
 
If it is indeed a stock boat ( the heading is broker concern and the two are very different legally) then you probably have some rights.

I assume you had a survey and sea trial pre purchase? If so I assume the engine was not leaking.

You don't say the boat or year, but if " late 80's" then it will be circa 35 years old and I suspect that given you surveyed it ( did you) that you start to enter the arena of is a non critical oil leak on a 35 year old marine engine a material fault or pretty much with you would expect? I have a small oil leak. I have had it tightened up ( not used it since) but told that if it does not stop it just ignore it. It won't let go and the effort to fix - which involves significant dismantling on a D12 is not worthwhile.
 
Fyord John said:
Hi, I just brought a stock boat from a broker. Upon viewing the engine and bilges were very clean. You could eat your dinner off the bilges. The surveyor did spot a small sweep of oil from the engine but it was barely visible at the time - so I agreed it wasn’t an issue. But upon return from our first trip after completion, oil was dripping down the side of the engine into the bilges, messing up all the prep work done by the broker and causing me great concern. The broker has reinspected the engine and said there is nothing they can do, the oil leak is what they would expect from a late 80s BMC. What are my rights in this situation and what should I do next?
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I would also add that it could be something as simple as rocker cover gasket which is an easy job , or the valve tappet chest cover again a fairly easy job , if it’s the sump gasket or rear main crank seal it’s engine out , again it’s not a complicated engine so I’d be employing an independent engineer to examine the engine and report his findings .

You can then get estimates for the work and present the seller with a quote .
 
Hard to say without sight of the sale contract . Or the survey report particularly the oil leak bit .

I normally write words to the effect “ as seen , tested and approved “ on the receipt of stuff I sell .
This is not private to private it sounds like boat dealer to private ( stock boat ) so iam not sure one can simply write away consumer protection .
How ever having said that we don’t know the age or particular nuisance of the BMC engine or if there’s any dilution of what little imho rights the buyer had that now maybe have disappeared re the oil leak by involving a surveyor who effectively signed it off .......gave it the big OK to buy .
In doing so passing on the liability of the leak on the guy who said it was OK .

Giving it the thumbs up without a thorough sea trail make the the surveyor look silly ......and possibly liable .
Buy as said I,am writing all this with out sight of the paperwork .
 
Fyord John said:
Hi, I just brought a stock boat from a broker. Upon viewing the engine and bilges were very clean. You could eat your dinner off the bilges. The surveyor did spot a small sweep of oil from the engine but it was barely visible at the time - so I agreed it wasn’t an issue. But upon return from our first trip after completion, oil was dripping down the side of the engine into the bilges, messing up all the prep work done by the broker and causing me great concern. The broker has reinspected the engine and said there is nothing they can do, the oil leak is what they would expect from a late 80s BMC. What are my rights in this situation and what should I do next?
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Why did you “ agree it wasn’t an issue “ ?

Did the surveyor or anybody else involved suggest further investigation ?
 
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Portofino said:
Hard to say without sight of the sale contract . Or the survey report particularly the oil leak bit .

I normally write words to the effect “ as seen , tested and approved “ on the receipt of stuff I sell .
This is not private to private it sounds like boat dealer to private ( stock boat ) so iam not sure one can simply write away consumer protection .
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My 22 year old son bought a cheap £1500 car where the Trade seller tried to void his consumer protection by writing "Trade Sale" on the invoice. Car started to develop serious faults a few months later. Son took him to the Small Claims Court and got a judgement against the seller. Seller failed to compensate him so my son instructed Bailiffs and got a full refund.
 
How bad actually is the leak? As already stated many old engines weep a little oil which usualy looks like gallons but is often only a small amount. Usually an oil soak pad under the engine will stop the oil being spread all over the bilges by the bilge water. Most old boats will have a few issues you just need to decide how expensive it will be to fix and or decide if its worth rejecting an otherwise sound boat for a possibly minor issue.
If you reject how easy will it be to find another boat to suit your needs
 
Pictures to illustrate the severity of the oil leak may help people judge whether the issue is serious .
 
Portofino said:
Hard to say without sight of the sale contract . Or the survey report particularly the oil leak bit .

I normally write words to the effect “ as seen , tested and approved “ on the receipt of stuff I sell .
This is not private to private it sounds like boat dealer to private ( stock boat ) so iam not sure one can simply write away consumer protection .
How ever having said that we don’t know the age or particular nuisance of the BMC engine or if there’s any dilution of what little imho rights the buyer had that now maybe have disappeared re the oil leak by involving a surveyor who effectively signed it off .......gave it the big OK to buy .
In doing so passing on the liability of the leak on the guy who said it was OK .

Giving it the thumbs up without a thorough sea trail make the the surveyor look silly ......and possibly liable .
Buy as said I,am writing all this with out sight of the paperwork .
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Yes we do, at least 30 years old!

Many surveyors state clearly that they are there to examine the structure of the boat and won't advise on engine issues as it's not their sphere of experience. I always have a survey and a seperate engine inspection by the agent of that make of engine.

I'll be interested to hear how the OP gets on complaining about an oil leak on a 30+ year old engine, my only advice would be that advice from strangers on the Internet is generally worth about what it cost...
 
Fyord John said:
Thanks everyone. I’m going to get an engineer to inspect and report on the engine and take it from there.
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I’d also be talking to your surveyor and ask him about his liability insurance , I’d say that he didn’t advise you correctly , once an engine has a leak it doesn’t go away , this is what you paid him for .
you might find if it’s the company I think it is then most of the surveyors they give you are in there pockets anyway .
i do around 25 engine and drive inspections a year as a senate instruction in line with the boat being surveyed by an independent surveyor .
 
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