Broken Mast Spreader, Repair or Replace???

Thanks for all the feedback! And sorry for the late response all. I worked on the boat all weekend again on the new top priorities of the top of the top priorities list LOL. So I'm working on preserving the teak, and getting the rudder sorted, both things that will require some kind of repair (IE paint/glue/etc) out in the open before it starts raining here in The Netherlands and doesn't give me another opportunity for a month.

I've been torn on this one about the mast spreader. I'm learning very quickly with the teak (which has proven an unbelievable amount of work for what appears just a couple small strips of wood!) that perfection does indeed get in the way of a job well Done with a capital 'D'.

BTW, per suggestions I checked the mast and the attachments again. I also checked that the shrouds have enough space in the (turnbuckles?) to tighten up a good deal (I have photos from before the mast was taken down) as they will need to be tightened slightly more when shortened. Good suggestions all- thanks again!

I don't need perfection in this boat. Then again she is my dream boat! I'm lucky to have her, and somebody did just a couple years ago put new standing rigging and chainplates in which likely cost a major portion of what I paid for the boat. Then again the Seldon guy who actually has legal liability if he wrongly advises me has said it should be fine. So maybe I'm just overthinking this! Then again a valid point was made, if I start cutting corners now, it's a slippery slope and will soon become a habit. And I have to decide what standards I set for the work I do on this boat, and where I draw the line for practicality. I do believe everything I have done so far is a solid if not perfect job, done to the best of my ability. The deck hatch for example is not the prettiest repair from the inside, but it was good solid hard wood that I used, the shop made perfect cuts, and the fit was really nice and snug. I believe that repair will last. And I do very much want to keep my standards up and do the best job I can on this boat!

Geez talk about 'Zen and The Art of Sailboat Maintenance!' Didn't know this was going to get philosophical LOL :)
 
Any problem needs a full analysis. How does it effect the safety? How difficult is the repair to be safe. Cost to reach those, followed by cosmetics.
Usually a quick process, but not always. Yours, not very tricky.
 
I don’t think that seldon would actually state fully ok and liability would probably not hold up, we have to work the risk ourselves but I had similar issue and only changed spreaders when the weld failed again and on swept back rig would not hold tight. Z Spars I then found had upgraded the design from side mounted brackets to through mast spar which was perfect, cost about £500 for kit though
 
OK, so I finally made a (slightly painful) decision...
The previous owner spent a fortune putting new standing rigging and chainplates and it's only 2 years old (4 years technically, but sat unused the last 2) so compared to that money already in the rigging, a new spreader is not much extra cost really.

Also I don't want to get into the habit of cutting corners. Generally speaking I really do want to restore this boat to the best of my ability. So while I do believe that 5% total length cut will likely (mathematically to be fair) make little difference, I've taken a decision that anything that's structural I will take the best option available even if it crunches the budget and in the end takes me longer to save/finish the job and get sailing.

It's going to The North Sea. So I want her to be strong.
Also I want to be able to look the next buyer in the eye and say 'she's a good sound boat'.
Which won't happen if I get in the habit of cutting corners now!

So I decided to bite the bullet and pay up for a new spreader.

Also I checked the spreader attachments and from what I can see they look fine. Holes for the pins are round.
And a little dirty but no corrosion inside.
So when the spreader comes back it should be ready to go!

IMG_20220914_140825_449 (Large).jpgIMG_20220914_140859_340 (Large).jpg
 
I would have made the same decision as you. When you really need to trust your mast and rigging you don't want worries about integrity or excessive rigging age even crossing your mind.

You will save more cost by doing easy jobs yourself and achieving the finish and result you want. And your confidence will grow so you can tackle more challenging jobs. Electrics are a good example.
 
geem said:
Yep, an insurer won't care about how long the boat sat ashore. They will likely want to know rig condition at 10 years.
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Its a strange item - but in all the survey reports I issued in UK / elsewhere for Yachts ..... not once was I ever asked by Insurers to state age of rigging. My reports were honest and stated 'visually' good condition. Which in fact is about as far as anyone can go - visually check. Even Riggers themselves will tell you its difficult to actually determine rig condition and is why age related replacement gets bandied about.
The average cruising yacht is often over-engineered when it comes to rigging.

Only time I see Insurers get onto rigging is when Surveyor makes remark in report that prompts response.
 
Refueler said:
Its a strange item - but in all the survey reports I issued in UK / elsewhere for Yachts ..... not once was I ever asked by Insurers to state age of rigging. My reports were honest and stated 'visually' good condition. Which in fact is about as far as anyone can go - visually check. Even Riggers themselves will tell you its difficult to actually determine rig condition and is why age related replacement gets bandied about.
The average cruising yacht is often over-engineered when it comes to rigging.

Only time I see Insurers get onto rigging is when Surveyor makes remark in report that prompts response.
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My insurers haven’t asked me, at 1st quote or renewal. If I lost the mast and the subject came up, I have a 2021 bill for it all.
 
My rig is definitely over-engineered, having been designed by the first owner who bought the mouldings and had them fitted out for ocean cruising. So over-engineered that I was able to change all the original standing rigging when I took her over with the mast up and the boat ashore.

The only time insurers or surveyors asked about age of rig was when I extended my cover to head out into the Atlantic, the new documents specified standing rigging less than ten years old.
 
I was told only buy liability insurance (covering others' boats) for this boat as full coverage (which includes my boat) will cost so much more, and they will start asking all the detailed questions as soon as I file a claim, and use the answers to deny the claim, but happily take my money until then. I would have thought they were being a bit jaded. But two people told me this.

Also I was told I have insurance by the marina while on the land and to start insuring when she goes in the water as it's hard for my boat to hurt anybody right now :)

Also, again I filtered some news to try to stay positive, but the Dutch shop when asked if they are really confident to make the tricky repair with the holes at angles, etc, said they could no problem. Then quoted me 150 Euros. Originally same guy quoted me 70 Euros. Gave me a bad feeling. Either he was taking advantage once he knew the cost of a new one, or he was brushing me off not wanting to say he wasn't totally confident in the repair. Either way, I felt more confident than ever just buying a new one.
 
The Real Flipper said:
I was told only buy liability insurance (covering others' boats) for this boat as full coverage (which includes my boat) will cost so much more, and they will start asking all the detailed questions as soon as I file a claim, and use the answers to deny the claim, but happily take my money until then. I would have thought they were being a bit jaded. But two people told me this.

Also I was told I have insurance by the marina while on the land and to start insuring when she goes in the water as it's hard for my boat to hurt anybody right now :)

Also, again I filtered some news to try to stay positive, but the Dutch shop when asked if they are really confident to make the tricky repair with the holes at angles, etc, said they could no problem. Then quoted me 150 Euros. Originally same guy quoted me 70 Euros. Gave me a bad feeling. Either he was taking advantage once he knew the cost of a new one, or he was brushing me off not wanting to say he wasn't totally confident in the repair. Either way, I felt more confident than ever just buying a new one.
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First your boat needs to be insured whilst on land as if something does happen then you could end up in dispute with the marina insurers who might find cause to blame you if for instance your boat fell over and damaged other boats. Check with the marina if their insurance does actually cover your boat and in what circumstances.
Third party insurance is an option but it would be worth getting a quote for comprehensive, insurers normally request that any items noted on the purchase survey have been rectified and that is the total of it. As you have had your mast foot "repaired professionally" and have proof of that it won't be a problem if you have a claim involving the mast, they will also want to know things like is the rigging less than 10 years old.
 
Agree with @Fr J Hackett, most marinas I have come across require third party insurance for all boats in their water or ashore simply to reduce their own liability premiums, some marinas specify a minimum amount to be insured for. I doubt that the marina would cover you should, for instance, drop a tool while working on the boat ashore and injure someone walking past.

Likewise, I have obtained full insurance against a pre-purchase survey on the condition that all recommendations made by the surveyor have been carried out. A verbal agreement used to be sufficient but now such terms are usually written as a condition of the policy. Should you fail to meet any of the conditions (such as number of competent crew on board) written into the policy it can have the effect of cancelling the cover, even if no claim is made at the time. (I once obtained a refund of the extra premium paid to cover a cruise to Norway as they wanted three crew but we sailed with two on board before the revised policy arrived in the post, so were effectively uninsured until the company agreed to continue the cover).

Also, consider that you can only claim for what is written in your insurance policy so check carefully as different companies may provide different levels of cover.
 
Marina's don't give a monkeys about Insurance to cover your boat.

Their concern is to have cover for any incident as a result of your boat - 3rd Party Liability.

This should cover not only damage / injury to others / Marina occurring as a result of your boat / use of - but also importantly - Wreck Recovery - in event your boat sinks within the Marina.

Years ago - there was a storm that passed through UK ... a lot of boats suffered 'domino' effect in the yards. Guess what ... very few Marinas had to pay out anything. Most ended up as Knock on Knock pay-outs between the boats. It also meant that there were quite a few boats that had no payout as a result, but paid for the other .... those that had 3rd party and no boat fell on them !! but they fell on others.
 
Fr J Hackett said:
First your boat needs to be insured whilst on land as if something does happen then you could end up in dispute with the marina insurers who might find cause to blame you if for instance your boat fell over and damaged other boats. Check with the marina if their insurance does actually cover your boat and in what circumstances.
Third party insurance is an option but it would be worth getting a quote for comprehensive, insurers normally request that any items noted on the purchase survey have been rectified and that is the total of it. As you have had your mast foot "repaired professionally" and have proof of that it won't be a problem if you have a claim involving the mast, they will also want to know things like is the rigging less than 10 years old.
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Refueler said:
Marina's don't give a monkeys about Insurance to cover your boat.

Their concern is to have cover for any incident as a result of your boat - 3rd Party Liability.

This should cover not only damage / injury to others / Marina occurring as a result of your boat / use of - but also importantly - Wreck Recovery - in event your boat sinks within the Marina.

Years ago - there was a storm that passed through UK ... a lot of boats suffered 'domino' effect in the yards. Guess what ... very few Marinas had to pay out anything. Most ended up as Knock on Knock pay-outs between the boats. It also meant that there were quite a few boats that had no payout as a result, but paid for the other .... those that had 3rd party and no boat fell on them !! but they fell on others.
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Hmm this doesn't sound too good. I know I need to get on this before *something* happens.
Problem is the survey given to the vendor was lost by the vendor. Surveyor hasn't made another copy despite multiple requests.
Also as the previous owner passed away and his son did not provide receipts for basically anything. New engine BTW was verified by engine numbers through Volvo and servicing schedule. Standing rigging, etc- though likely replaced when vendor said, no receipts.

I would like full insurance as the boat will likely be worth quite a bit more than I paid for it (I have put a lot of money and time in so far!) when done, but if this means me buying yet another survey now, it's just not in the financial planning schedule ;-)
 
You can get third party insurance to cover your liability to others in the marina/yard without a survey and most marinas in the UK require it. It can be ungraded to "fully comp" as and when you get a survey or otherwise satisfy the insurance co to cover you. No insurance at all is a big no no IMO.
 
Do at least get some quotes or speak to some insurers before going on ‘word of mouth’ advise about cost/expense/cover.

Boat insurance in the UK seems comparatively cheap. I pay less to insure our boat fully comp than my car - even though the boat is insured for 30 times the value of the car (what can I say? Old Hondas don’t die!).

If you care about it, it really should be fully comp insured regardless of cost or hassle for doing so.
 
Biggles Wader said:
You can get third party insurance to cover your liability to others in the marina/yard without a survey and most marinas in the UK require it. It can be ungraded to "fully comp" as and when you get a survey or otherwise satisfy the insurance co to cover you. No insurance at all is a big no no IMO.
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Exactly .... get 3rd party cover at least to start ... worry about Fully Comp later when you have realistic situation.

And please stop winding yourself up reading so much about needing surveys etc. There are still Insurers out there who do not require a full survey.
Some will accept a letter from the Marina Yard stating boat is visually cared for and as can be determined 'Fit for Seagoing'.
 
OK, well I suppose that since I'm waiting for the rain to stop to finish my teak work I might as well look into insurance now. Once I have a few quotes I'll have a better picture where I stand on costs and coverage. Thanks all for bumping this up the priority list!
 
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