Broadcast VHF radio ending in Norway

Minchsailor said:
"By the end of the year, all national FM broadcasts will be closed in favour of DAB"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38529435
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/05/norway-become-first-nation-switch-fm-radio-shift-digital/

Planning on cruising Norway this year; how well do DAB car radios work in boats? Earthing? Aerials?
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The title is misleading, the Norwegian VHF coastal radio is still operational and is providing excellent services to pleasure and commercial users.

Weather forecast is published on working channels several times a day, if you contact the radio station on ch16 or directly on on of the working channels you can get weather forecast repeated.

You find the broadcast time on the linked channel plans, vær=weather.
https://telenormaritimradio.blob.core.windows.net/tmr/1661/kanalplan-vhf-2016-soer-norge.pdf
https://telenormaritimradio.blob.core.windows.net/tmr/1660/kanalplan-vhf-2016-nord-norge.pdf

FM broadcast is terminated this year and replaced by DAB, DAB have been operational for several years. We have car radio with DAB using the same aerial as for digital TV with splitter, excellent reception with aerial 17m above sea level.
 
Personally I think the switch off of FM national radio programs is a mistake for Norway. I have tried digital broadcasts on the tv, on the computer and also bought a DAB portable radio. After finding the DAB radio consumed 4 AA batteries every 4 to 5 weeks compared to the FM radio it replaced using 3 AA batteries every 4 to 5 months, so I stopped using the DAB radio. Yes selecting the stations is easier on the DAB, but the running cost does not justify it.

If the FM switch off comes to the UK in the near future, then I will require 2 reception boxes for the cars, at least 3 new radios, a new stereo and a new radio for my boat. Being forced to do this for the reasons given of extra channel frequencies for even more radio stations that very few people will ever listen to. The change to digital tv has brought many extra tv stations, but how many do you actually watch on a regular basis? The overall quality of tv programs has dropped with so many cheap to produce or imported programs. Most of these extra channels are just not worth watching, and the same will apply to the extra DAB radio channels.

It will be highly likely the protests in Norway from the public could reverse this switch off. No politician would be happy at loosing a method of speaking to "his" public, let alone the loss of distribution of news and other important messages. Just imagine the outcry if some people in this country could not hear Radio 4, 3 or 2 in their home or car.
 
Concerto said:
Personally I think the switch off of FM national radio programs is a mistake for Norway. I have tried digital broadcasts on the tv, on the computer and also bought a DAB portable radio. After finding the DAB radio consumed 4 AA batteries every 4 to 5 weeks compared to the FM radio it replaced using 3 AA batteries every 4 to 5 months, so I stopped using the DAB radio. Yes selecting the stations is easier on the DAB, but the running cost does not justify it.

If the FM switch off comes to the UK in the near future, then I will require 2 reception boxes for the cars, at least 3 new radios, a new stereo and a new radio for my boat. Being forced to do this for the reasons given of extra channel frequencies for even more radio stations that very few people will ever listen to. The change to digital tv has brought many extra tv stations, but how many do you actually watch on a regular basis? The overall quality of tv programs has dropped with so many cheap to produce or imported programs. Most of these extra channels are just not worth watching, and the same will apply to the extra DAB radio channels.

It will be highly likely the protests in Norway from the public could reverse this switch off. No politician would be happy at loosing a method of speaking to "his" public, let alone the loss of distribution of news and other important messages. Just imagine the outcry if some people in this country could not hear Radio 4, 3 or 2 in their home or car.
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Leaving aside the discussion of FM vs DAB, I find these days I am increasingly listening to radio stations via their web presence - BBC broadcast on the web, my station of choice is Classic FM and they do.. HD quality on Classic (not sure about BBC), with ever cheaper WIFI is this the future of broadcasting I wonder rather than bespoke radio's? Good set of speakers and blue tooth the web radio station from your phone.. jobs done..
 
Concerto said:
Personally I think the switch off of FM national radio programs is a mistake for Norway.
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I agree. In Sweden there were advanced plans for closing down FM in 2022, in favor of DAB. Thankfully the government scrapped those plans last summer, after much criticism.
 
Concerto said:
After finding the DAB radio consumed 4 AA batteries every 4 to 5 weeks compared to the FM radio it replaced using 3 AA batteries every 4 to 5 months, so I stopped using the DAB radio.
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This is the great unspoken truth about DAB - the most energy inefficient broadcasting medium ever devised.
 
oldvarnish said:
This is the great unspoken truth about DAB - the most energy inefficient broadcasting medium ever devised.
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Proponents of DAB argue that receivers will become more efficient as they develop, which is largely a fallacy. They are inherently inefficient, and only limited means can be used to address the issue.
 
Concerto said:
After finding the DAB radio consumed 4 AA batteries every 4 to 5 weeks compared to the FM radio it replaced using 3 AA batteries every 4 to 5 months, so I stopped using the DAB radio. Yes selecting the stations is easier on the DAB, but the running cost does not justify it.
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TBH, I don't think the sound quality is very good either. We've all had to become used to it, but the difference in quality was very noticeable when TV went from analogue to digital. OK, we're all getting older and there is inevitably some hearing loss, but the difference was quite pronounced on changeover IMHO.

Interestingly, just the other day, a BBC Radio4 news reporter claimed that digital sound quality was better. Has it improved?
 
Sgeir said:
TBH, I don't think the sound quality is very good either. We've all had to become used to it, but the difference in quality was very noticeable when TV went from analogue to digital.
...
Interestingly, just the other day, a BBC Radio4 news reporter claimed that digital sound quality was better. Has it improved?
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That's like asking questions about "a boat" without saying whether you mean a Mirror dinghy or a Sunseeker. There are loads of different digital formats, and most of them allow varying levels of quality, sometimes trading off different "kinds" of quality against each other and overall bandwidth. The stuff streamed to me over the Internet looks and sounds way better on my 49" telly than any analogue broadcast ever did.

The reason digital broadcasts might sound worse is if they've decided to use that flexibility to deliberately dial down the quality in order to fit more channels into the same space, or even into less space in order to sell off the excess. That's a business issue, not a technical one.

(Admittedly, in the specific case of DAB, people who know more than me have said that it was an inherently poor choice of format as well.)

Anyway, this is all getting a long way from the OP's original question, which was about listening to broadcast radio in Norway. I don't have any experience, but I don't see why a car DAB unit shouldn't work just as well on a boat - though for one summer's cruise, perhaps a portable (ideally with a 12v adapter) would make more sense.

Personally of course, I wouldn't bother at all since I don't understand Norwegian so there's no point me listening to it. I'm curious whether the OP happens to speak the language, or whether he momentarily forgot that Norwegian broadcast radio will be in Norwegian :p

Pete
 
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Concerto said:
If the FM switch off comes to the UK in the near future, then I will require 2 reception boxes for the cars, at least 3 new radios, a new stereo and a new radio for my boat. Being forced to do this for the reasons given of extra channel frequencies for even more radio stations that very few people will ever listen to.
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Neither the TV switch off nor any future FM switch off were for the purposes of giving you more channels, that was just a by product.

The FM and TV Broadcast band is very useful as very few transmitters are needed to cover a large area. Therefore mobile phone operator's want it and the Government want to sell them it. So broadcasters are told to vacate.
 
The UK was an early adopter of DAB and rushed in. The rest of Europe went for DAB+ which is a much more efficient method of compression. DAB could deliver better quality than CD but this means increasing the BIT rates. If you increase the BIT rates you reduce the number of channels available. If we transition to DAB+ it would mean that BIT rates could increase resulting in better quality sound but my guess is that they would use the space to sell more channels.

The approach is all wrong, they should do both, transition to DAB+ insist on a higher BIT rate and only marginally increase the number of channels.

As for Norway I think it was easy to switch off analogue TV, it wasn't wide screen had low resolution and few channels in the event people had already moved to digital services. With radio it is a different matter. For one thing the majority of cars sold today still do not have DAB and the vast majority of cars on the road do not have DAB. I think it would be political suicide to switch off analogue.

Does anyone know what they plan to do with the analogue spectrum after switch off?
 
Seven Spades said:
As for Norway I think it was easy to switch off analogue TV, it wasn't wide screen had low resolution and few channels in the event people had already moved to digital services. With radio it is a different matter. For one thing the majority of cars sold today still do not have DAB and the vast majority of cars on the road do not have DAB. I think it would be political suicide to switch off analogue.

Does anyone know what they plan to do with the analogue spectrum after switch off?
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My understanding is that the FM frequencies will still be used for local radio stations for a number of years to come (with the exception of some urban areas). So the switch off really only applies to national radio, public and commercial.
 
Do keep up grandads,latest Dab stuff is far more efficient regards batteries and last year 80% of cars were sold with DAB.
Just keep twiddling those cats whiskers and fiddling with the valves and let the rest of the world move on. :)
Dab is now allowing far more types of music to be narrowcast.
 
oldgit said:
Do keep up grandads,latest Dab stuff is far more efficient regards batteries....
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Dab is much more efficient at using batteries that's for sure. My DAB portable flattens a bunch of AA's far quicker than FM or longwave.
I have an FM personal radio that gets longer life despite only using one AA.
 
lw395 said:
Dab is much more efficient at using batteries that's for sure. My DAB portable flattens a bunch of AA's far quicker than FM or longwave.
I have an FM personal radio that gets longer life despite only using one AA.
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Indeed - DAB radios eat batteries - it's their worst problem really. It's certainly true that many DAB broadcasts run at a restricted bit rate - and hence audio quality - but that is a choice made by the station operator, not imposed by the medium. DAB is able to carry a decent quality channel - it's the audience that apparently does not insist on it.
 
BabaYaga said:
My understanding is that the FM frequencies will still be used for local radio stations for a number of years to come (with the exception of some urban areas). So the switch off really only applies to national radio, public and commercial.
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Last I heard, the long term plan is that the 87 to 108 MHz band will be used for digital radio broadcast. But that is very long term. And receding.
Some of the UHF TV bands have been taken over by things like police comms, railway comms etc. Some at the top end are mobile phone now (mostly coming into line with other parts of the world), but most of the band is digital telly.

All planned a ong time ago, somewhat overtaken by people deserting broadcast for interweb services....
 
maby said:
Indeed - DAB radios eat batteries - it's their worst problem really. It's certainly true that many DAB broadcasts run at a restricted bit rate - and hence audio quality - but that is a choice made by the station operator, not imposed by the medium. DAB is able to carry a decent quality channel - it's the audience that apparently does not insist on it.
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The audience don't get asked.
The bit rate has to be paid for.
The audience figures are only enough to rent a thin bitstream in many cases.
 
lw395 said:
The audience don't get asked.
The bit rate has to be paid for.
The audience figures are only enough to rent a thin bitstream in many cases.
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The audience implicitly approves by continuing to listen! If the quality was unacceptable, then the ratings would drop.
 
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