British vs American attitudes to endeavour.....nb

Re: British vs American attitudes to endeavour....

No - China does well because (like the old East Germany, and USSR) its a third world dictatorship where national prestige matters.

<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.
 
Re: British vs American attitudes to endeavour....

If you split up the tables, we lead the sailing, second cycling, second with the horses, and well up somewere else, but then thats positive.
Wander if the negative mood is a marketing lead thing. In the 60's it was a positive attitude, cars, music, design, we lead the world and were proud of it. But in the 70's this negative mood started re British product and life. Things like we used to had a pride in the water supply, and look at France they have to buy bottled water. Then bits started appearing in the press about Britsh water, and now look how much water we buy, and the cost of it compaired to the same volume of tap water. The same can be said for all products we buy, we buy a German car for twice the price of a British car, then moan that the British quality is below the German. Thus by allways knocking Britsh products, it's easy to sell imports, plus you do not need plant or lots of empolyee's.

Brian

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drained of a spirit of endeavour 400 years ago?

Steve, that takes the biscuit.

So, the spirit of endeavour left these shores, and the failures who were left behind proceeded to:

- Build the greatest empire the world has yet known
- Create the rule of law
- Establish representative democracy
- Create the industrial revolution
- Defeat Louis XIV, Napoleon, the Kaiser and Hitler
- Achieve more Nobel prizes than any other nation
- Create the greatest literature in the world...

Some chicken! Some neck!

But if you don't like it, you can always leave...

<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?
 
Re: British vs American gene pool

Shouldn't have taken part? You've obviously never run competitively! It is their life, it's what they live for. The games only come around every 4 years, so in the career of any international level sportsperson, you do what you have to take part. Not taking part, would be like taking the decision to commit suicide - you don't do it unless absolutely desperate. I used to train on Salisbury Plains with someone who was aiming for the Olympic Marathon, trained for years and years, was up there, got selected, then caught a bug and lost two months training, which put him more than several months behind his training schedule. He pulled out, and was never the same again, and regrets it to this day! It destroyed him.

I trained at Merthyr Mawr with Coe, Cram, Ovett etc, used to meet up with Steve Jones around the roads near Llantwit Major often while out training. Never aspired to their level, I was just a good county, sometimes international, level runner, but I can tell you something about the people that compete at their level. 50% is fitness, the other 50% is belief and the ability to turn off the pain, and push beyond where most people give up, while maintaining a focus that is mentally demanding.

Your comments show a complete ignorance of what is required to compete at that level - I'm so flaming furious that I'm going to edit out the next two or three lines that I was going to post.

Comparing people who jog around the marathon (fair play to them, it's not an easy challenge for most) to the top runners who are doing times of something not much over 2hrs, just demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of what it takes to get to that level. You give up your life totally, no social life, no family, no friends, to the extent most people have. To then talk about sympathy and humiliation. I have no words to describe what I think of your post!

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni
 
Re: drained of a spirit of endeavour 400 years ago?

All of that is sadly history which todays Britain would never tolerate:

- Try to build the greatest empire the world has yet known and you would be accused of slavery, exploitation and genocide.
- The rule of law was created to protect the wealth gained by those who benifitted from the above
- Representative democracy is an illusion created to make you believe you have a choice that doesn't really exist. Nothing much changes whoever's in power.
- An industrial revolution today would collapse under union uproar as exploitation of the workforce is deemed unreasonable.
- We defeated Louis XIV, Napoleon, the Kaiser and Hitler and yet still we seem hell bent on joining the Franco/German Empire
- Achieving more Nobel prizes than any other nation would be branded elitist and ultimately the standard will be dropped so that everyone can have one.
- Create the greatest literature in the world...and watch the PC brigade tear it to shreds and brand it either racist or sexist and unfit to be taught in schools.

We may well have had a better standard of living than most of Europe but as we plunge deeper and deeper into the Union of European Socialist Republics the equalisation process will continue to drag us down to the level of the lowest and we'll be drowned in a sea of beurocracy, red tape and petty interfering by those with nothing better to do.

However great this country may have been, that is long since past, and unless there is some kind of unprecedented political u-turn, it will never see greatness again.

Bill



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Re: British vs American gene pool

Brendan

Chill out. I'm not knocking the commitment people demonstrate to compete at that level. Nor indeed am I knocking Paula Radcliffe if she ran her best and sustained injury or was so exhausted she could run no more. I fact I would totally sympathise. My comments were based on the assumption that once she saw she couldn't win, she threw in the towel.

Now maybe my assumption is wrong, I'm happy to accept that, but if not then I find it disagreeable to just call it day just because you've been beaten.

No need to get all worked up about it, I'm only expressing a viewpoint, at the end of the day it's only running after all.

Bill

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Re: British vs American gene pool

As I said, you have no conception of what it's like to run at that level. It's largely pyschological, and you are judging her from an armchair critics point of view. Forget throwing in the towel, athletes at that level don't do so unless they are desperate. She was already struggling when she was overtaken, and that would have been the 'straw' that was needed. Don't judge what you don't understand.

It may be only running to you, but not to her.....it will have been a life changing experience, and I have no way of putting that across to you.

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni
 
Re: British vs American gene pool

absolutely - my brother runs marathons and the no 1 target for marothon runners is to finish - it is an event where finishing is the victory - winning is kind of a 2nd target - theres no way she would have quit unless there was a problem - which there quite patently was.

Its interesting that further posts in this thread have reinforced my opinion that we still think this is a great country because of things that happend 200 years ago - i'm all for heritage and pride - but it aint gonna pay the bills in 2004.

I'm looking at the olympics this morngin and I think the press are largely to blame for the negative attitude in this country - Steve backely didn't succed in making the olympic final (his 3rd?) - he scraped through - our kayackers failed -they didn't come a well deserved fifth in the olympic final - our long jumper jumped a seasons best (all you can ask in competition really) and 'failed' to make the medals - how the hell is coming 5th in your first olympics aged 21/22 failing?
And the medal tally is set to top that in sydney and we have 'won' the sailing and in the top 3 in rowing / equestrian and may just have discovered a world class boxer - but those headlines don't sell papers.

P.S I fully realise the irony in whinging about this nation of negative whingers!

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Re: British vs American gene pool

Radcliffe has decided to run the 10k. Good luck to her.

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Re: British vs American gene pool

"theres no way she would have quit unless there was a problem - which there quite patently was."

So much of a problem that she is fit enough to run in the 10,000??

I agree she probably stopped due to "mental fatigue" rather than purely physical fatigue but it still doesn't stop me thinking that she should have at least finished the marathon.

And Yes I am sitting here making judgements from my cosy armchair position but these people put themselves in the public arena for the glory so should be judge in that arena. All IMHO of course, and what do I know - I have trouble running 5k in half an hour, not a marathon in 2hrs......

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://static.photobox.co.uk/public/images/45/99/10714599.s.jpg?ch=97&rr=16:00:39>Nirvana</A>
 
Re: British vs American gene pool

>So much of a problem that she is fit enough to run in the 10,000??<

You don't have to have a physical problem to simply run out of steam on the day, it happens to everyone who runs long distance. Happened to me a few times, and I still cannot to this day explain it....legs just wouldn't work. I think she stopped due to physical exhaustion as much as mental - read my previous posts. She was laboured and struggling to run smoothly well before she stopped.

That is one hell of a tough course, and incredibly hot, and not suited to her running style.

To be honest, I'm not sure why she is running, as she won't have recovered yet from the exhaustion. 5 days is not enough! It's a very brave and risky decision.


<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni
 
Re: British vs American gene pool

I just hope there is not too much expectation of her again. She won't have recovered fully from the marathon yet - and the field she is up against is very strong

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni
 
Re: British vs American gene pool

OK, I thought you might say that.

She was match fit, I don't think there's much doubt about that. You just can't compare people who run a marathon for fun, charity or personal endeavour, to a world class athlete, who's life right now is devoted to winning. It's a shame she didn't finish. The mental strain prior to and in the early stages of the race precluded that. She's the one who's suffering most now!

Brendan Foster just said the wisest words. It's not necessarily a wise decision to run the 10k, as she will now but if she's doing it because she wants to as an athlete, then OK. Hope it doesn't damage her for the future and be happy in the first eight.

I understand this culture of "Ok you can't cut it, let's find someone who can". Personally I don't like it. It's like the "hire and fire" culture. We need to look at ourselves as managers if the workers don't achieve.

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Re: British vs American attitudes to endeavour....

"I wish they'd all stop banging on about her and focus on the athetes that have managed to do well :("

If we did that there would be almost nothing to watch, in athletics anyway. The sailing has been great.

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Re: British vs American attitudes to endeavour....

Maybe they should ditch round after round of uzbeks fighting russians in the ring in divisions we don't have any boxers in instead!


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Re: British vs American gene pool

Agree with all that Brendan says. It is almost impossible to imagine how much effect the heat must have had. Just imagine what it was like on the hottest day last year, then add a bit, I know that just walking around was unpleasant, I'd hate to think what it must be like running just a short distance let alone 26+ miles!! I would say that it's virtually impossible for someone from this country to train for that intensity of heat.

Also she was running for a medal not just to make up the numbers, when it was obvious that a medal chance had disappeared then why carry on in such extreme conditions. Don't forget that at the Sydney Olympics she came 4th and in Atlanta 5th. She is not a quitter, that was the first race she'd ever dropped out of. She is the world record holder for the marathon and the 10000 metres unless you count the dubious Chinese world record.

It's the media who are making such a big issue of her exploits not Paula. She's the one doing the hard work and has done so for the past 15 years or more. Give the girl a break. I'd love to see her win tonite.

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Brendan Foster

"...just said his wisest words"?

Well what I heard him say this morning was that "...Paula Radcliffe will win an Olympic medal but not at these Olympics she won't"

I'm sure that such a vote of confidence will go down very well in the British camp!

I hope that he has the dignity to resign as a BBC commentator if she proves him wrong tonight.

Steve Cronin



<hr width=100% size=1>The above is, like any other post here, only a personal opinion
 
Re: British vs American gene pool

Like many other yotties I visit Greece regularly and keep my boat there.

In April I cycled all around Athens buying bits & pieces and the air quality was unbearable although the temperature was only 22C. I actually lost 5llbs in a week!

We left after our last visit in June with 32C at 3am and people awake in the cockpits of their boats unable to sleep. A shirt lasted 30 minutes before it was too wet to wear.

Unless you have experienced living on tarmac too hot for bare feet and where the heat comes through your shoes within minutes, where the air is completely still & suffocating, you couldn't possibly imagine what it must be like to run in URBAN Athens at this time of year. Most of us come back to the UK for July & August for it is no place for we who hail from temperate climes, much less a place to stage the showpiece event of an AUTUMN sport.

After all, Miltiades' runner (Phidippides?) dropped dead after he brought the news of the Persian invasion to the Athenians. Was it SO important to re-stage the event over the same route, especially when so much of it is now so hugely built up? Wouldn't it have served the cause of athletics better to have chosen a venue more to the north of Athens in the cooler hills?

Steve Cronin



<hr width=100% size=1>The above is, like any other post here, only a personal opinion
 
Re: I don\'t get it

In the UK uninformed speculation is turned into expectation and the lardies that "forgot their kit" on sports day swallow it down and pontificate from their armchairs.

If the population of the UK want more sporting success then should get off their arses and get involved as competitors, helpers, sponsors or administrators.

When I last checked there were no awards for watching, carping or scapegoating.

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Re: Brendan Foster

Think you're taking it slightly out of context. He was asked if he thought that Paula Radcliffe should run the 10,000 metres and he answered "no" (and surely nobody is better qualified to make such a judgement than Big Bren?) His following comment that she wouldn't get a medal surely stemmed from his view that it wasn't possible to recover, emotionally and physically, from what happened in the marathon, in the space of a few days and that she might do further damage to her motivation and self esteem if she makes a mess of the 10,000 metres.

What I know about atheletics could be written on the back of a stamp, but I think that what he said was perfectly sensible and, though it may seem paradoxical, that he was supporting Paula Radcliffe in the broadest sense - by exhorting her not to make things even worse. Of course I'd be delighted to see her win a medal, but I suspect she won't. That won't stop me rooting for her - but I am an ardent admirer of St Jude (Patron Saint of lost causes). /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho
 
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