British Motor Yacht Show 2017

henryf said:
What a great day out despite a touch of wind. Must have been the curried salmon :)





Where else can you stand on "your" Sunseeker 95 yacht and chat with the Sunseeker sales representative on "his" neighbouring Sunseeker 86 yacht across the water?
I think there's some room for additional boaty / lifestyle exhibitors on dry land though appreciate visitor numbers are modest. Henry :)
Click to expand...

You should have popped down to Poole..
The maritime festival at the weekend had all above plus fireworks ,food festival and 7 stage music festival.
.Sunshine..
And also all free..
Interestingly main sponsor..
Sunseeker.
 
I learnt from discussion with one of the Sunseeker Salesman and I assume Henry F, that the statutory limit for a non professionally qualified skipper i.e. with a Master's certificate which I thought was 80' or 24m, in fact can be increased by adding 'extensions'.

I thought maximum length was based upon LOA, regardless of how appendages are attached.

Can some one please explain how, as an amateur sailor, I can legally skipper a boat advertised as 95' ?

It was very nice BTW, although perhaps a bit IKEA inside.
 
superheat6k said:
I learnt from discussion with one of the Sunseeker Salesman and I assume Henry F, that the statutory limit for a non professionally qualified skipper i.e. with a Master's certificate which I thought was 80' or 24m, in fact can be increased by adding 'extensions'.

I thought maximum length was based upon LOA, regardless of how appendages are attached.

Can some one please explain how, as an amateur sailor, I can legally skipper a boat advertised as 95' ?

It was very nice BTW, although perhaps a bit IKEA inside.
Click to expand...

Are they referring to the nature of construction of the vessel, where the base vessel construction complies with the 24m rules, and the overall length is then increased by the addition of extension structures eg swim platform, bow component etc?

PS S6K I was disappointed to learn afterwards that we were apparently at the show at the same time, I would have liked to have had the opportunity to thank you in person for your generous help with my aircon troubles last year. Apologies - and again, thanks.
 
It's not 24m Loa. It's 96% of length of a theoretical waterline that is positioned 85% of the way up from the keek to the underside of the aft deck, on that boat. You then exclude platform and nose cone. It is then possible for 100 feet Lia to be just under 24m LLL
Weird, I know.
 
jfm said:
It's not 24m Loa. It's 96% of length of a theoretical waterline that is positioned 85% of the way up from the keek to the underside of the aft deck, on that boat. You then exclude platform and nose cone. It is then possible for 100 feet Lia to be just under 24m LLL
Weird, I know.
Click to expand...

Theres a potential prob with deviating from LOA --

This "weired " L is often written down on the reg cert and other various paperwork .

Great for certain stuff eg paying marina fees when visiting as they ask for the reg cert and regurgitate what they see ,but not so great when they send you to a place to what they think there's plenty of room to manoeuvre.
Twice I,ve had to send my wife back into the Capitaneries asking for another berth having seen on the map-ette the proposed place .

It might not be the formulae above that the IT reg use but the result is the same my UK reg cert is 2M short LOA .
For me I need enough distance between the quays to turn 15 M not 13.1 ---the beam,s the only correct figure and the most important .
still got a copy of the old IT reg book and the discharge cert ,so all the numbers are consistent on each document .

You can see on a blue hull faint remnants of the IT reg decals -so it's important I have a daisy chain of doc,s when flying a red ensign visiting Italy .

You just need to be a carefull arriving in a 30 M boat in a marina where by the doc,s say L = 23.9 M

It's no biggie --now ! --- wife has now ( in the interest of matrimonial harmony :)) learn,t to blag 15 + M and map read marina plans --- despite receptionist tapping in 13.1 ---and the computer says ----- here's a space ----nooooo !

Once in a while we used get boarded by French officialdom who were just doing there job .
I just tip a file out -- reg cert , insurance ,and my French "permit du Mer " --which iirc is up to 24 M
So I imagine in a bigger boat all the numbers on the doc,s like L need to tally up .
So in a bigger boat say a 92 and you are an owner /skipper i would prefer the reg cert to record L as 23.9 M --
Incase it's a"jobs worth " on board .
 
Portofino said:
Theres a potential prob with deviating from LOA --

This "weired " L is often written down on the reg cert and other various paperwork .

Great for certain stuff eg paying marina fees when visiting as they ask for the reg cert and regurgitate what they see ,but not so great when they send you to a place to what they think there's plenty of room to manoeuvre.
Twice I,ve had to send my wife back into the Capitaneries asking for another berth having seen on the map-ette the proposed place .

It might not be the formulae above that the IT reg use but the result is the same my UK reg cert is 2M short LOA .
For me I need enough distance between the quays to turn 15 M not 13.1 ---the beam,s the only correct figure and the most important .
still got a copy of the old IT reg book and the discharge cert ,so all the numbers are consistent on each document .

You can see on a blue hull faint remnants of the IT reg decals -so it's important I have a daisy chain of doc,s when flying a red ensign visiting Italy .

You just need to be a carefull arriving in a 30 M boat in a marina where by the doc,s say L = 23.9 M

It's no biggie --now ! --- wife has now ( in the interest of matrimonial harmony :)) learn,t to blag 15 + M and map read marina plans --- despite receptionist tapping in 13.1 ---and the computer says ----- here's a space ----nooooo !

Once in a while we used get boarded by French officialdom who were just doing there job .
I just tip a file out -- reg cert , insurance ,and my French "permit du Mer " --which iirc is up to 24 M
So I imagine in a bigger boat all the numbers on the doc,s like L need to tally up .
So in a bigger boat say a 92 and you are an owner /skipper i would prefer the reg cert to record L as 23.9 M --
Incase it's a"jobs worth " on board .
Click to expand...
With SSR reg you can write any length you want within reason. With part 1, the length isn't meant to be the LLL. It is the LOA without appendages, so in your case the difference will be swim platform and on other boats the pulpit too.

So there are three lengths relevant to a boat:

the true LOA
the LOA as required by part 1 registry (obv relevant to UK boats only, though other country registries might have similar)
LLL

and all 3 are different.

Madness, I know.
 
jfm said:
the LOA as required by part 1 registry (obv relevant to UK boats only, though other country registries might have similar)
Click to expand...
Yup, IT registry for one.
Out of curiosity, what is the Part 1 definition of "appendices"?
In IT, it was (not 100% sure if it still is) anything that can be removed without affecting the boat capabilities.

Which made builders invent some funny solutions, like in the early 90s Ferrettis, where the whole hull section under the swim platform was attached to the main hull - which btw is the reason for props and rudders much further forward than usual.
As a result, the 165 and 175, which are in reality 17 and 18+ meters, were registered as 15 and 16.50 respectively - go figure!
I can't remember what the difference was for the 150 and 185, but they were built in the same way.
 
Last edited:
MapisM said:
Yup, IT registry for one.
Out of curiosity, what is the Part 1 definition of "appendices"?
In IT, it was (not 100% sure if it still is) anything that can be removed without affecting the boat capabilities.

Which made builders invent some funny solutions, like in the early 90s Ferrettis, where the whole hull section under the swim platform was attached to the main hull - which btw is the reason for props and rudders much further forward than usual.
As a result, the 165 and 175, which are in reality 17 and 18+ meters, were registered as 15 and 16.50 respectively - go figure!
I can't remember what the difference was for the 150 and 185, but they were built in the same way.
Click to expand...
That definition is used in the LLL calculation (which is sort on international, because it is IMO) and is the reason for nose-cones as well as "arse cubes" (if I may coin that expression) as a technique to stay under 24m LLL. As you know Ferretti are Grand Masters of nose cones and arse cubes.

For UK registry, that seems not to be the definition and I'm not even sure there is a definition but it seems in practice that the measurement surveyors do not include the pulpit overhang nor a bolt on or hi-lo swim platform, but do include everything else. I think they would include n/cones and a/cubes in LOA
 
jfm said:
"arse cubes" (if I may coin that expression)
Click to expand...
LMAO, well, if whitelighter and markc don't raise objections, who am I to argue...? :D :p

I can see why neither that trick nor the nose cones would work for UK reg.
Actually, as I said previously, I'm not sure if they work anymore in IT too - coming to think of it, probably not, because even Ferretti abandoned that solution since the end of the 90s (when EU-RCD became effective, I would guess).
Though nose cones aren't as "bad" as arse cubes, imho.
I mean, at least they don't affect the boat buoyancy, and you don't miss any boat functionality without them (as opposed to arse cubes, which not only affect the boat flotation, raising the w/l astern if removed), but also trim tabs would be lost without them.
 
jfm said:
It's not 24m Loa. It's 96% of length of a theoretical waterline that is positioned 85% of the way up from the keek to the underside of the aft deck, on that boat. You then exclude platform and nose cone. It is then possible for 100 feet Lia to be just under 24m LLL
Weird, I know.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I have definitely learnt something here today, I guess a bit like the difference between deadweight or displacement tonnes and gross tonnes, the latter of which is actually meaningless in regard to a ships mass, but may reflect its physical size.

So next time I am asked if I need a license the answer ".. below 80' no .." could be made a bit more complicated.

I assume L L L is Load Line Length.

Sorry I missed you Jimmy - I was the short fat bloke wandering quietly around with my 13 year old daughter mid afternoon, but time was short so we only looked over the Sunseeker 95 and one of the Princess models, followed by a pint in the Boathouse to top up my Bugle (Hamble) credit.
 
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