British Flag or Dutch Flag

[PLR1960]

Hi,

I'm about to buy a sailing yacht in Holland - Dutch flagged and EU VAT paid.

I will not be keeping her in the Netherlands for too long - and I will not be keeping her in the UK. I will eventually take her down to The Med and be based in Spain.

On my last yacht I de-registered from Norway and placed on British flag via SSR. But that was before Brexit.

I'm fully aware of the 90/180 rule - so let's not get into the ridiculous situation we are in.

But from your experience out there - would "ease of passage" be better under a Dutch flag.

Naturally, as I'm British I would prefer a Red Ensign on my own yacht - but will it create more paperwork, inspections and hassle?

Thanks,

Peter

 

[Biggles Wader]

Are you resident in UK? If so you should beware of having to pay VAT if you bring the boat here, even briefly. I dont think the flag matters apart from having to conform with that flag regulations.

 

[Tranona]

Hi,

I'm about to buy a sailing yacht in Holland - Dutch flagged and EU VAT paid.

I will not be keeping her in the Netherlands for too long - and I will not be keeping her in the UK. I will eventually take her down to The Med and be based in Spain.

On my last yacht I de-registered from Norway and placed on British flag via SSR. But that was before Brexit.

I'm fully aware of the 90/180 rule - so let's not get into the ridiculous situation we are in.

But from your experience out there - would "ease of passage" be better under a Dutch flag.

Naturally, as I'm British I would prefer a Red Ensign on my own yacht - but will it create more paperwork, inspections and hassle?

Thanks,

Peter

No problem with UK flag provided you have your evidence it is EU paid. If you are UK resident you can use the SSR, and if not then Part 1 which of course will require an additional survey unless you have your pre purchase survey done by an MCA approved surveyor.
One caveat is that currently Greece are not following EU rules on free movement of EU VAT paid boats by treating third country registered boats all the same for the purposes of issuing transit Logs, but I guess by the time you get there it will be resolved.

 

[greeny]

No real extra hassles for British registered boats down here in Portugal after brexit. VAT would be my only concern but you've already stated it's EU vat paid. I think Dutch flagged went through a bit of a bad time here a few years ago when it was considered to be an easy registration of convenience for Portuguese looking to escape the inspections and costs of boat owning here but that seems to have settled down now. Lots of British boats anchored in the river Arade here and in the boatyard at Portimao and I don't see or hear of anyone complaining about harassment.

 

[PLR1960]

Are you resident in UK? If so you should beware of having to pay VAT if you bring the boat here, even briefly. I dont think the flag matters apart from having to conform with that flag regulations.

Yep - UK citizen and resident. Not bring her to UK.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Just to add to this a bit too late but wroth saying , you now have a problem registering under Dutch flag , like Many countries they have tighten up .

 

[PLR1960]

Just to add to this a bit too late but wroth saying , you now have a problem registering under Dutch flag , like Many countries they have tighten up .

Thx - She is already registered under Dutch Flag

 

[sailaboutvic]

Thx - She is already registered under Dutch Flag

It doesn’t matter when you go to register unless your a Dutch citizen or live in the Netherlands you won’t be able too.
this is in line with the SSR ,French , and many other countries, which is why people are now using the Polish register.
has already said you be best to use the SSR.

 

[westernman]

In your position, if I could I would renew the Dutch registration if possible.
But I doubt that it is possible without being a Dutch citizen or a Dutch resident.

I think most EU registries are moving to that model (maybe Poland sometime soon) - you either have to be resident in the country or a citizen of the country.

 

[sailaboutvic]

In your position, if I could I would renew the Dutch registration if possible.
But I doubt that it is possible without being a Dutch citizen or a Dutch resident.

I think most EU registries are moving to that model (maybe Poland sometime soon) - you either have to be resident in the country or a citizen of the country.

There a few brits i know who taken off SSR and gone for polish mostly because they don’t want the Hassle in Greece ,
personally since we left the EU and while we was still living on board in the Med we had no problem .
we now still flying the red duster SSR in Northern Europe and again we had no problem, actually in Denmark many locals have especially stop to talk to us because of the flag, I guess they don’t see many red dusters in these parts .

 

[Refueler]

Poland or Swedish if you cannot continue the Dutch Registry. Both (and Dutch) of course will be free of time restrictions ... the only question then is yourself if you do not have residence permit in EU.

Why you would consider UK registry of any kind if you are not bringing boat to UK ?? Its IMHO not a good idea.

Just for comment : my Sunrider was SSR and transferred to Latvian Registry easily - but required a de-registration certificate from SSR. This was when UK still in EU. SSR refused to renew as I was not resident in UK and could not produce 'utility bills'.

Yesterday was wanting to register my new boat on Latvian Registry ... not allowed as boat has no registration history and therefore I cannot provide de-registration document.
Latvian guys (I know them personally) just said ... Nigel - Polish or Swedish is the way to go ...

Within 1 hour I had joined Swedish Cruising Assoc ... completed International Registration and just waiting Certificate ..

 

[westernman]

In your position, if I could I would renew the Dutch registration if possible.
But I doubt that it is possible without being a Dutch citizen or a Dutch resident.

I think most EU registries are moving to that model (maybe Poland sometime soon) - you either have to be resident in the country or a citizen of the country.

Actually I think there are two kinds of Dutch registration:-

1) ICP: which more or less corresponds to our SSR and for which you have to be a Dutch citizen or resident
2) Zeebrief: which is much more expensive. You would need to set up a Dutch company as a non EU citizen to own the yacht. This way is open to anyone and is a bit like our Part I. It entails an inspection and yearly fees.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Actually I think there are two kinds of Dutch registration:-

1) ICP: which more or less corresponds to our SSR and for which you have to be a Dutch citizen or resident
2) Zeebrief: which is much more expensive. You would need to set up a Dutch company as a non EU citizen to own the yacht. This way is open to anyone and is a bit like our Part I. It entails an inspection and yearly fees.

one Has been disconnected I guess it’s the ICP , it’s no longer recognise, after the Gremany ship that picked up all the boat people which cause a stir in Italy it was registered under Dutch flag , since then netherlands has stoped non Dutch using it .

 

[PLR1960]

Thank you for all the information - very interesting. I had a reply from the RYA legal team - looks like it's fine to have British Ensign - the ships flag does not bias the VAT status. I'm EU VAT paid and will sail mainly in EU.
Happy sailing

 

[narcer]

Poland or Swedish if you cannot continue the Dutch Registry. Both (and Dutch) of course will be free of time restrictions ... the only question then is yourself if you do not have residence permit in EU.

Why you would consider UK registry of any kind if you are not bringing boat to UK ?? Its IMHO not a good idea.

Just for comment : my Sunrider was SSR and transferred to Latvian Registry easily - but required a de-registration certificate from SSR. This was when UK still in EU. SSR refused to renew as I was not resident in UK and could not produce 'utility bills'.

Yesterday was wanting to register my new boat on Latvian Registry ... not allowed as boat has no registration history and therefore I cannot provide de-registration document.
Latvian guys (I know them personally) just said ... Nigel - Polish or Swedish is the way to go ...

Within 1 hour I had joined Swedish Cruising Assoc ... completed International Registration and just waiting Certificate ..

This sounds like a good option? So basically what your saying is join the SCA and then register to receive the certificate and that's it? Surely you need to be resident in Sweden I would have thought?

 

[Refueler]

This sounds like a good option? So basically what your saying is join the SCA and then register to receive the certificate and that's it? Surely you need to be resident in Sweden I would have thought?

Not necessary ... yes - the official line was that residency was needed - but subsequently the SCA and another large Swedish body have brought about this situation where no longer do you show residency.

My own latest boat is waiting confirmation of Swedish Reg'n ... then it will be VHF Radio Station / MMSI etc.

Plenty of boats owned by Latvian's are Swedish registered ...

 

[garen]

I'm in a similar dilemma (see this post). I'm wondering which route you ended up taking?