Briare canal advice

[corfubound]

Hi guys, this is my first post having just joined the forum. I'm trying to get some advice as to how to progress a problem. We were on route to the med when we got caught in the flooding at Montargis, boat is a 11m long keeler with a draught of 1.6m and 12Tonnes. With the help of the VNF guys we managed to keep the boat safe as the destruction all around us was terrible to watch as locals lost there possessions and there homes and businesses where destroyed. We ended up on the commercial wharfe at the north side of the town where VNF said we'd be safe. Problem now is we are trapped and the last info we had was it would be a minimum of 4 months before the canal "may" re open. Im not getting any communication with VNF as they are not replying to emails and my french isnt good enough for phone calls. The boat was due to be lifted at port saint louis in August so I am considering getting lifted and go by road. But where is there a crane I can get to from Montargis with a closed canal? I've emailed AUGIZEAU TRANSPORTS to see if they can get a vehicle to the area but further to this I just dont have a clue. Any ideas, cheers. Paul

 

[boatmike]

Oh dear! Sorry to hear of your plight. I have been watching the situation as I am about to leave the UK to get to Port Napoleon myself but it appears from your post that you are trapped in the closed section of the Briare. The only suggestion I can make is that you could try to get lifted and put back downstream or perhaps at somewhere like Sens on the Yonne rather than road transport all the way. It appears the canals etc below the ruptured area are now virtually back to normal, but you may judge the additional cost of road transport is not enough to warrant lifting twice.... Not a very useful contribution I know but I can confirm that VNF have told me the same. The breach in the bank is going to take until October November to repair. Even then it's not said with confidence......
http://www.michaelbriant.com/lorry_option.htm gives some alternative options for other lorry companies if you need it. Its also perhaps worth talking to your insurance company about the situation. You should make them aware anyway but you may just find that the cost of recovery may be covered?

 

[corfubound]

Thanks for that Mike at-least you have confirmed the situation on the Briare. I'm still waiting on the haulage company for quotes and have contacted the insurance (they may pay some of the costs) I'm hoping the haulage company may be able to sort a crane and work with VNF to find a spot on the bank where she could be lifted. Lifting a boat from a canal is never easy even when you speak the same language!

 

[Grehan]

Bonjour
You're north of Montargis. I think the breach is near Montbouy . . . ? (maybe I should know, but please confirm) that is, south of you.
Can you not head back north and take an alternative route to the Saone ? What is your draught?

Excuse me if I've got the wrong end of the stick !

You should also be able to get some good advice from Dor Maas who is the capitaine at Briare - she is very helpful and knowledgeable, Dutch, speaks perfect English, etc. http://portdebriare.fr/en/ - Tél : +33 2 38 31 24 65 - Mobile : +33 6 08 95 03 20
Also you could speak to Simon Evans at Migennes on the Yonne, again well recommended. +33 3 86 92 93 13

FWIW We have used Augizeau in the past and found them good and professional.

 

[boatmike]

Bonjour
You're north of Montargis. I think the breach is near Montbouy . . . ? (maybe I should know, but please confirm) that is, south of you.
Can you not head back north and take an alternative route to the Saone ? What is your draught?

Excuse me if I've got the wrong end of the stick !

You should also be able to get some good advice from Dor Maas who is the capitaine at Briare - she is very helpful and knowledgeable, Dutch, speaks perfect English, etc. http://portdebriare.fr/en/ - Tél : +33 2 38 31 24 65 - Mobile : +33 6 08 95 03 20
Also you could speak to Simon Evans at Migennes on the Yonne, again well recommended. +33 3 86 92 93 13

FWIW We have used Augizeau in the past and found them good and professional.

Reading the VNF site Grehan I think the canal is closed from Lock 26 at Montbouy all the way past Montargis to lock 36 at Buges so our friend is stuck in a closed section of the canal and can't get out north or south.
Mike

 

[corfubound]

Thanks Grehan, Mike is right, we're (the boat) is stuck in the middle, and wouldnt help if we could get out northbound as the other routes south are too shallow. we're 1.6m with an empty booze locker. I found a crane hire company listed in Montargis, so if they are still in operation and reply to my google translated email, may give me hope. I'm going back over in a week or so to speak directly with VNF with regard to a suitable lifting place, seems to be nothing but trees and the canal bank where the buildings stop. In retrospect I should have sorted all this before flying home to the uk, but with all the damage around us and VNF staff in a panic our plight seemed trivial when locals were loosing there homes. paul.

 

[lindsay]

Have also used augizeau and found them fast and reliable. Others well reputed are morlin and devineau.

A tip for contacting any of them if you want to progress. Even if your french sketchy, dont be embarassed about it. Just prepare something IN FRENCH along the lines of excuse me but my french is not good, very sorry, could i speak to someone who speaks english..... They will find someone to help you. Say how well they speak. Get the info you need. Thank them profusely. Grovel, grovel. The worst that can happen is that you have to hang up, right?

 

[Grehan]

Reading the VNF site Grehan I think the canal is closed from Lock 26 at Montbouy all the way past Montargis to lock 36 at Buges so our friend is stuck in a closed section of the canal and can't get out north or south.
Mike

Ah I see, thanks Mike. 10 locks, catastrophe.
Lift-out is the only option then. What a b*gger.

Ref: Augizeau - they're a big professional firm, dealing with lots of non-French clients. Our experience, with limited French at that time, was smooth. Just been talking to a fairly young boat mechanic at Macon - having explained a complicated gearbox problem (inadequately I'm sure) in broken French he asked me if I could speak English . . .
Simon Evans would know many of the boat transport firms - folks with narrowboats get them shipped over and splashed in at his yard.

 

[boatmike]

Erm..... I may be on dodgy ground here but I thought the Marne and Bourgogne routes were classed as "Freycinet" canals and had a minimum depth of 1.8 metres (allegedly) If that is so your 1.6 metre draught should scrape through. Of course that will be the maximum in the middle and will possibly reduce in periods of drought but we don't exactly have that problem at the moment do we (sic) Don't take my advice though. I am reading it all out of books! Grehan would know better though?
I only ask because it may well be that the canal is closed north of you to stop traffic and limit leakage at the site of the breach and it may be possible to talk to VNF about you getting special clearance to escape northwards for a small consideration? Dunno but it is the only alternative I can think of. While we share a common affliction regarding communication in French I have found that if you can find someone who is fluent to speak with them on the telephone you get a much better reaction and problems often find solutions...... Do you know anyone? It's surprising how much help a good bottle of scotch can get you!

 

[corfubound]

Cheers Mike, that gives me a possible way out IF they get the canal open at Buges, had a quote of 4K for transport out to port saint louis but thats without the crane lift so I'm getting an option or two now. I'd rather she go on her own bottom all the way, but times passing and the Marne route may just take too long as I've commitments in November that may stop the job if they're slow getting the north end open.

 

[Grehan]

1.6m is too deep for the C de Bourgogne (the most convenient if you can head north) but should be ok for the Marne>Saone (you have to get back to Paris).
http://www.french-waterways.com/practicalities/french-canal-depths.html

 

[boatmike]

1.6m is too deep for the C de Bourgogne (the most convenient if you can head north) but should be ok for the Marne>Saone (you have to get back to Paris).
http://www.french-waterways.com/practicalities/french-canal-depths.html

I bow to your superior knowledge of course Grehan, but why then do all the books I read give the Bourgogne as 1.8? David Edwards May says all Freysinet canals are 1.8 and specifically says on the chapter for that route that it is as well. So does David Jefferson's book (which is a recent edition) are they both wrong? Has something changed?

 

[Grehan]

Once upon a time the Bourgogne saw commercial traffic and the 'official' depth was 1.8m from end to end. Since that has more or less ceased (hotel barges on the eastern side, some commerce beyond Dijon) the canal has silted to 1.4m to 1.3m on the western side. This is my personal experience (we draw 0.9m) and what Breil and Fluviacarte say. D E-M's book needs to be corrected.

 

[boatmike]

Once upon a time the Bourgogne saw commercial traffic and the 'official' depth was 1.8m from end to end. Since that has more or less ceased (hotel barges on the eastern side, some commerce beyond Dijon) the canal has silted to 1.4m to 1.3m on the western side. This is my personal experience (we draw 0.9m) and what Breil and Fluviacarte say. D E-M's book needs to be corrected.

Thanks for that Grehan, again local up to date knowledge trumps all. I thought that would be the case and although I only draw 1.1 metres I think that your original advice to go the Marne route is our best bet. We will just have to get used to drinking that horrible fizzy Champagne stuff I guess. No worries though.... The Rhone vineyards are ahead!

 

[boatmike]

Cheers Mike, that gives me a possible way out IF they get the canal open at Buges, had a quote of 4K for transport out to port saint louis but thats without the crane lift so I'm getting an option or two now. I'd rather she go on her own bottom all the way, but times passing and the Marne route may just take too long as I've commitments in November that may stop the job if they're slow getting the north end open.

Just another "heads up" here. I am watching the VNF site like a hawk as I want to get to the med myself this year. Even if you escape north the Marne is closed at the ecluse 11 Iles de Meldeuses not far out of Paris. It says it is "indesposable" because of an electrical problem. If you delve in to the VNF notices they say they will repair it ASAP but it's been like that for quite a while now. Don't they have any electricians in France???? The Yonne also has a closure so it seems there are literally no routes through from Paris to the Rhone right now if I am reading it right. I am sure Grehan will correct me if I am wrong. We both seem to have picked an excellent year to experience the joys of the French Canals don't we?

 

[Grehan]

The catastrophic breach on the Briare - an important canal route - caused by exceptional weather is a very unusual occurrence. But with thousands of km of waterway and thousands of locks there are always going to be maintenance problems here and there. In general terms the VNF look after their system quite well and make the repairs pretty quickly. They could of course do better and we could all pay a huge amount more to enjoy their facilities. If there is a problem on the Marne route it will be addressed promptly because this is also an important route to the Saone, still used by (a few) commercial barges.
I think you might be over-egging 'normal' problems . . . but look at http://www.barges.org/forum/stoppages-hazards-and-levels and http://www.barges.org/forum/vnf-avis - there are always things happening.

 

[boatmike]

I recognise Grehan that as an enthusiast for the French canal system you feel a need to rush to the defence of VNF and indeed they have had to deal with an almost unprecedented situation throughout France in the last couple of months. I copy here though a translation of the "situation hebdomadaire du reseau for 8th July as it applies to the lock in question.

Marne, navigation stop at KP 113 (Lock No. 11 of Isles-les-Meldeuses) since May 26, 2016 (Notice No. EN / 2016/02496). Due to an electrical problem, the lock of Isles-Les-Meldeuses is unavailable.

This is one of the main locks from Paris on the Marne and there is absolutely no way around it. It effectively closes the second of the three main routes through France to the Rhone. It has been closed SINCE MAY 26th because of an electrical problem?????
I recognise that the Briare problem needs some major civil engineering work but would have thought that with that as a background it would have created a little more urgency to ensure that this "electrical problem" was dealt with quickly.

Your own advice to me was that the Marne route was the way I should go. At the moment it is not possible. Neither is the Briare. That only leaves the Bourgogne which relies on getting through the Yonne. That is closed between PK24 (pont laroche) and 40.33 (ecluse Villevallier) This seems to be on a canal diversion and it is not clear if one can get around it on the old river. If not there is no way through to the Med at all.......

p.s. I have looked at the two web sites you flagged. I need to pay to join to see one and none of the posts on the other relate to current problems.

 

[blampied]

Hi Mike,
in my experience they are quick and efficient at getting problems resolved or coming up with a work around.
Locks are very robust bits of equipment that now days tend to rely on electric motors to open and close the paddles and gates. However all the locks retain the facilities for manual operation, it takes longer sometimes a crank handle sometimes a hydraulic hand pump. It takes longer and obviously they would not be encouraging more boats than absolutely necessary.
Unless there has been a structural failure like the catastrophic canal collapse boats will still be moving.

 

[boatmike]

That is not what the VNF site says Paul. It says the lock is not available and has not been since May 26th.

 

[corfubound]

I can understand the problems VNF are having after the weather this year, but these problems have so far cost me several hundred pounds and the pension only goes so far. My boat isnt set up to spend a winter in fresh (frozen) water so I am now faced with a probable bill for 5K for a lift and transport back to salt water if there is an area to lift from? or ice damage if we cant move her. I'm really wishing I had gone by sea as I'd have long since been tied up in Gib. Ooh for some blue water and waves.