Brexit and sailing

st599 said:
To explain the housing shortage by saying "it's immigrants" is a ridiculous argument. They have a small effect but:
+ the aging population profile meaning housing stock is kept by a person longer,
+ the reduction in the number of family generations living together,
+ the number of developers sitting on land with planning permission to artificially boost house prices,
+ absentee owners buying for profits (in some new builds, 80%+ of properties are bought as investment and have no body living in them),
All have a greater effect.

What happens if we're unlucky enough to Brexit is unknown. We could have a situation similar to Switzerland where we continue to pay in, have free movement of goods and services, implement most of the rules but have no say, or a trade agreement but have to obey all non trade rules that they may wish to impose.

Either way, the EU can't afford to let someone walk away scot free.
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I disagree. Remove the 2M immigrants ( or whatever number it is ) & you immediately have a load of houses free . Of course you cannot do that but when immigrants come here & jump housing queues then there is a case for restricting immigration. Housing associations are financing many houses for social rent but the number given to foreign citizens is disproportionate to those already here.

Developers do not sit on land just to profit from price increases. The planning process is so long winded & unreliable with limited predictability that they have to stock up in advance to give a smooth work flow. If they get planning for 1000 houses & built them all immediately they may have nothing for next year. It means greater borrowing to do the 1000 in one year compared to doing it over 2 years. If they had consistency in the way planning was approved & consistency in land availability they would need less stocks. When land is available they still have to tenedre for it & may not manage to buy it in steady annual quantities

I am not so sure that there is a reduction in families living together. Housing shortage produces some problems with live at home offspring & there is a gradual increase in the age of first time buyers demonstrating this

As for investors buying & leaving empty houses - I think this is just a jealous socialist view with little to prove it. Most investors get them rented out ASAP to generate a return. Purchasing houses just to sit "on" rather than "in" is generally older properties which may be down for redevelopment & often delayed by planning & regulatory issues. I see nothing wrong in buying houses for rent. The current market needs all the rented properties it can get. If only to force down the price of rents on a "supply & demand" basis

Why can the EU not afford to let us walk-- Well because when others see how successful we are other countries will follow & the whole thing implodes

Immigration is - at present- a major factor in the argument for exit, but i feel it distorts the issue as the current "crisis" is a shorter term issue caused by wars in the east. True there is also the problem of membership of the EU allowing countries without the "western culture" bringing somewhat unsavory types into our country. However, if we developed a culture whereby they had to adopt our ways then the immigration & race issue would be reduced.
What is just as important are the restriction placed on what we do out of the EU. Out of the EU we should be able to reduce cost & be more competitive. We can also dump the fishing & agriculture policies. But little is being said about that by politicians.

As for following rules for trade. Of course we have to supply goods that meet their regulations. Goods supplied to us are no different, we also impose regs on what comes into us. Point is that we will not have a problem because many of their standards were obtained from us in the first place. The British Standards Institute had a good income from the sale of these standards to the EU.
 
I just wish that instead of saying that we are governed by lots of small regulations restricting small business I wish that politicians & business men would actually say what the EU ones were & what ones were being generated by our own un-elected officers applying their own interpretations on things.

For instance HMRC with all their restrictive rules. How much of the new proposed quarterly accounting & tax reporting rules are EU generated & how many are just HMRC poncing about with the rules

Similarly, when we talk about sovereignty what laws are of our making & what are really caused by EU law meddling . Publicly things like criminals in jail getting a vote hit the press & may be an example worth quoting.

I just would like more information.
However, whatever they say I am voting for out unless I am off sailing & not in the UK on 23 June
 
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I am sure politically it will be much like an acrimonious divorce, and there will be some who will make it as difficult as possible for us. The problems we face in this country are not likely to be solved by leaving the EU.
We have a large number of friends in France and many of them feel the EU is overbearing so it is not just us Brits.

We also have Russia throwing its weight around near europe and further afield, if they see discord and disunity in europe they will exploit that sure as eggs is eggs.

As far as yachting is concerned i see vastly increased customs and border enforcement with the inevitable fines in the UK for the most minor of transgressions in the paperwork, most of which will have to be done online. I am sure there will be increased paperwork on the other side of the channel and the booze cruise will be a bit stunted.
 
Judders, you need to get yourself better informed. I can't let you get away with your ill informed, narrow minded post. The eu seeks to destroy the financial powerhouse that is The City of London. Led by France the eu seeks/is in the process of establishing Frankfurt as the financial heart of europe. This is their stated aim whether or not GB remains in the eu. Come back to me when/if you can discover who designed, built, financed and which nationalities now are employed in the ECB building in Frankfurt.
With regard to manufacturing, GB presently has to abide by eu regs on subsidising industry. It cannot, for example offer support in meaningful terms to the steel industry to preserve or protect jobs, however, were GB to leave the eu then, the elected British govt could do what it deemed appropriate to support any industry.

I don't want my country to be turned into a susidiary state of a country called Europe run by unelected bureaucrats who evidence will probably show are corrupt to boot. (If they ever get the accounts through audit!)
 
chrishscorp said:
As far as yachting is concerned i see vastly increased customs and border enforcement with the inevitable fines in the UK for the most minor of transgressions in the paperwork, most of which will have to be done online. I am sure there will be increased paperwork on the other side of the channel and the booze cruise will be a bit stunted.
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The booze cruise will only be stunted if the chancellor continues to tax booze at the rate he does now- Have you considered what would happen if taxes in general could be reduced as result of Brexit?
Quite honestly it is such a minor point in the whole scheme of things that I would ignore it. Plus there will be a benefit to local traders here. Have you forgotten that?

I was regularly sailing to Belgium in the 60's 70's & always had to report to customs on return which could be hassle if I did not arrive on the tide as was expected. At least now I will be able to call customs on VHF rather than shine a torch at the customs house window & wait for the old boy to wave back ,then come out in his dinghy & fill in the papers. I am sure we will not be having that introduced again.

Going to France I recall had to report to Dunkirk customs office on arrival but it was shut when I walked the mile to it so did not bother any more.

Generally they left us alone & provided paper work was in order there was no difference to what it is now when arriving in foreign shores, if customs decided to do a quick check. In fact now it is harder going to Belgium as one never knows if they are going to bring up the red fuel bit, or fine me for things like not having boat name on stern of boat etc ( really had a problem with that one)

I think, as I get older, the effect on things like the NHS ( less outsiders using it) will be more important to me than cheap booze or a grumpy customs official
 
Daydream believer said:
I think, as I get older, the effect on things like the NHS ( less outsiders using it) will be more important to me than cheap booze or a grumpy customs official
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With migration terminated immediately after Brexit, it will handle fewer patients, as it will no longer have an international supply of staff. Of course, the unemployed will have more job opportunities thereby, so win-win really.
 
RAI said:
Of course, the unemployed will have more job opportunities thereby, so win-win really.
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Surely the argument is that unemployment (as currently measured) is very low- near what economists call the "structural" level and much of the labour inflow is to fill the jobs that UK unemployed won't take. This will only get more attractive when the minimum wage rises. On the other hand (the Boris of this world argue) there is a shortage of skilled labour such as clinical staff and other qualified workers from outside the EU.

However, not sure what any of this has to do with sailing - other than I know I am alive and can go sailing because of the skills of a South African surgeon, ably assisted by Iraqi and Polish registrars, an Indian anaesthetist, ably assisted by nurses from Phillipines, Germany, Czech Republic and of course UK.
 
RAI said:
With migration terminated immediately after Brexit, it will handle fewer patients, as it will no longer have an international supply of staff. Of course, the unemployed will have more job opportunities thereby, so win-win really.
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Who says migration will be terminated immediately? More scaremongering.
 
Andy61 said:
The eu seeks to destroy the financial powerhouse that is The City of London. Led by France the eu seeks/is in the process of establishing Frankfurt as the financial heart of europe. This is their stated aim whether or not GB remains in the eu.
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Where is that stated that the EU is doing that? In UKIP brochures perhaps. Anyway, after Brexit, the EU will be forced to create a competitor to the City Whereas, if the UK stays in, it can fight to ensure the City's supremacy.
Andy61 said:
Come back to me when/if you can discover who designed, built, financed and which nationalities now are employed in the ECB building in Frankfurt.
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The ECB runs the Euro. Germany is its biggest component, Why should they build its offices elsewhere? Why should British bankers be employed to run the Euro?
Andy61 said:
With regard to manufacturing, GB presently has to abide by eu regs on subsidising industry. It cannot, for example offer support in meaningful terms to the steel industry to preserve or protect jobs, however, were GB to leave the eu then, the elected British govt could do what it deemed appropriate to support any industry.
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It is not just the UK's steel industry that is in trouble. The UK would complain if Thyssenkrupp were being subsidised by the German government, as it would be unfair competition. I thought the Tories were against subsidising industry.
Andy61 said:
I don't want my country to be turned into a susidiary state of a country called Europe run by unelected bureaucrats who evidence will probably show are corrupt to boot. (If they ever get the accounts through audit!)
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The EU is governed by elected representatives in the Council and Parliament. The bureaucrats are selected by the member states, one each, and are changed and approved by Council and Parliament every five years. In the UK our elected representatives have been caught with their hands in the till and our bureaucrats are entirely unelected and far more faceless civil servants who have jobs for life and set their own salaries. One finds perfection nowhere.

On topic, even after Brexit, the island will not be able to sail off into the mid Atlantic.
 
Bobc said:
Who says migration will be terminated immediately? More scaremongering.
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Blame UKIP and other outers, they want to terminate net immigration. Take control of our borders they say (away from EU bureaucrats, who have apparently infiltrated the Border Agency).
 
"With regard to manufacturing, GB presently has to abide by eu regs on subsidising industry. It cannot, for example offer support in meaningful terms to the steel industry to preserve or protect jobs, however, were GB to leave the eu then, the elected British govt could do what it deemed appropriate to support any industry."

I wouldn't want my tax money to be wasted in support of an inefficient, loss making industry. That's a sure downward spiral into debt with no future.
 
Malo37 said:
I wouldn't want my tax money to be wasted in support of an inefficient, loss making industry. That's a sure downward spiral into debt with no future.
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But you're happy for your tax money to go to supporting and subidising the French farmers and Spanish fishermen are you?
 
Bobc said:
But you're happy for your tax money to go to supporting and subidising the French farmers and Spanish fishermen are you?
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The UK steel industry is free to go to Brussels and lobby for support from the EU. They would probably get support from Belgium and others states who have had similar problems.
 
How sad that what could have been a useful thread about the potential effects of exit on the cruising community has been hijacked by refugees from the Lounge re-hashing all the old arguments.
 
Champagne Murphy said:
Now we've got that off our chests, what about Brexit and sailing?:rolleyes:
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Speculating with fear: Awful, it is nice to sail the med without checking in. Those Spanish patrol boats near Gibraltar might start to piss off UK sailors that little bit more. I know I would if I was them. Slap on some fines here and there. £8billion reasons to make it a med wide policy?
 
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