Bowman, gybe actions, end to end.

[tsekul]

the main issue is that the sheet has to be over the pole in front of the uphaul. As you give you gybe the pole the sheet falls off and you need to place the other sheet over the new end. But if you have not moved the head sail to the other side, when you drop the pole you have to be really careful where all the lines are running. At the moment the quickest method is to forget the sheets gybe the pole. Unattach the sheets from the clew thread them through correctly and reattach. I know it’s not right and it’s annoying me
T

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Isn't the business of having the jib sheets over the pole something from dip pole gybing?

I may be spectacularly wrong, but if the spi and pole are up, the only thing stopping the jib and sheets moving side to side would be a downhaul if it's rigged as a foreguy from a ring on the deck. If the downhaul is from the mast base then there's nothing in the way and you can move the sail across when you like. If there is a foreguy, just unclip it from the pole and pass it under the jib for during an unloaded moment, if you can find one.

To an extent I'm speaking from distant memory, having had time off from sailing, but my current boat has 2:1 jib sheets and there's no way there's enough rope on the boat to get those over the pole. In my first year and a bit back in racing we've thought of most ways of fouling up spinnaker manoeuvres, but having the jib on the wrong side hasn't happened yet.

 

[flaming]

the main issue is that the sheet has to be over the pole in front of the uphaul. As you give you gybe the pole the sheet falls off and you need to place the other sheet over the new end. But if you have not moved the head sail to the other side, when you drop the pole you have to be really careful where all the lines are running. At the moment the quickest method is to forget the sheets gybe the pole. Unattach the sheets from the clew thread them through correctly and reattach. I know it’s not right and it’s annoying me
T

When you gybe end for end it's relatively easy to get the jib sheets right. All you do is pick up the jib sheet on the new side and put it over your shoulder. Then stand at the mast and gybe the kite as normal, dropping the jib sheet over the end of the pole before you beak the new guy.

 

[Foolish Muse]

why would that be easier than swapping the pole whilst sailing dead downwind and after jibing the main? Or is it not so much a case of easier as of getting on the new course quicker?

Watayotte: The reason to "gybe without the pole" when singlehanding is that many times it is difficult, dangerous or just inconvenient to leave the tiller at that moment. I use this technique virtually every time I go sailing now. One reason is that when returning to my home port, I have to gybe just after an island. The tides, and the island, cause rough water and standing waves for about 1/2 mile. So I just wait until I'm into smoother water to move the pole over. Another situation is where I need to make two quick gybes, to get around a bouy, a boat, or a rock. Why bother moving the pole when I'm only going to be there for 5 minutes. I once gybed back and forth 9 times over about 5 miles to dodge a number of these things. The technique makes all of this simple as pie.

One of the ideas I'm trying to pass on in my book is that even if you are not a racer, it's important that you be able to sail with all of the techniques as if you were. This proves that you are a good sailor. If, for example, a sailor were to tell me that they don't use a spinnaker (which is common), I'd think to myself that they need to improve their sailing abilities so that using a spinnaker is normal. And the techniques I've developed for using a spinnaker singlehanded are just ways to make it more do-able for everyone.

 

[tsekul]

I’ll get there. It all gets a little frantic round the cans ,short handed
Thanks for the tips.

 

[Kerenza]

.

One of the ideas I'm trying to pass on in my book is that even if you are not a racer, it's important that you be able to sail with all of the techniques as if you were. This proves that you are a good sailor. If, for example, a sailor were to tell me that they don't use a spinnaker (which is common), I'd think to myself that they need to improve their sailing abilities so that using a spinnaker is normal. And the techniques I've developed for using a spinnaker singlehanded are just ways to make it more do-able for everyone.

ah the joys of generalisation. hope the rest of your book is better than that. and as it takes at least 5 to drop our kite safely, racing or not, perhaps your available when i am next short of crew.

 

[awol]

ah the joys of generalisation. hope the rest of your book is better than that. and as it takes at least 5 to drop our kite safely, racing or not, perhaps your available when i am next short of crew.

Why not just treat it as disposable?

 

[awol]

...... and while I'm trawling Youtube anyway, here is my favourite "how to gybe" clip......

 

[lw395]

...... and while I'm trawling Youtube anyway, here is my favourite "how to gybe" clip......

Great.
Top tip: Learn to use the mainsail before putting the kite up.

 

[Foolish Muse]

ah the joys of generalisation. hope the rest of your book is better than that. and as it takes at least 5 to drop our kite safely, racing or not, perhaps your available when i am next short of crew.

That's not from my book, just an idea I've had. I don't want to imply that it takes less than 5 seconds for me to douse, just that I do it at the last possible moment and I don't want to slow the boat while in process. This is why I'll let the spinnaker come in behind the mainsail, because it's the fastest way on a beam reach in heavy winds. But I really do appreciate learning the stretch and blow method. It will be very helpful and I'm sure to use it.

Believe me, I have had many, many, many broaches while singlehanding, some of which were worse than the videos. It would certainly be accurate to say I've had at least 50 broaches, maybe closer to 100, with the water coming up to within 2 inches of my main hatchway. One of the best lessons I learned was from an IMOCA 60 skipper who told me "when something goes really wrong, the first thing you do is make a cup of tea, and drink it, and if you're French have a cigarette. Then figure out how to solve the problem." The day I considered myself a half decent singlehander is during one bad broach, when I didn't actually make a cup of tea, but I did take a drink from the travel mug of tea that I already had in the cockpit, with the boat over on its ear, before solving the problem.

 

[Kerenza]

i was referring to the number of crew, not the time.
on second thoughts, if you've had that many kite broaches perhaps the offer of a place is withdrawn.
I've had less than a handful when racing with other skippers, and one on this boat, which is one too many.

 

[Foolish Muse]

on second thoughts, if you've had that many kite broaches perhaps the offer of a place is withdrawn.

All part of the learning experience. The Olson 30 is a really twitchy boat, liable to broach in a half a second under autopilot or bungee cord steering once the winds get above 20. But after all this learning I haven't had one now for a couple of years. And I've certainly learned how to recover and get back to racing in a few seconds.

and one on this boat, which is one too many.

You're living too far from the edge my friend.

 

[Kerenza]

dunno, just think we go faster when we're upright.

 

[Robert Wilson]

One of the ideas I'm trying to pass on in my book is that even if you are not a racer, it's important that you be able to sail with all of the techniques as if you were. This proves that you are a good sailor. If, for example, a sailor were to tell me that they don't use a spinnaker (which is common), I'd think to myself that they need to improve their sailing abilities so that using a spinnaker is normal. And the techniques I've developed for using a spinnaker singlehanded are just ways to make it more do-able for everyone.

Oh Yeah?
#28 proves why I have just removed my spinnaker pole and spinnaker and they will probably never go back on board as long as I'm solo sailing.
Perhaps they might If I have a crew (who have a LOT of experience of the blasted demonic things!)
If I need a lot of sail "off/before" the wind I hoist my old 135% genoa as well as my new one which is on a furling forestay.

And that isn't very often either

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Oh Yeah?
#28 proves why I have just removed my spinnaker pole and spinnaker and they will probably never go back on board as long as I'm solo sailing.
Perhaps they might If I have a crew (who have a LOT of experience of the blasted demonic things!)
If I need a lot of sail "off/before" the wind I hoist my old 135% genoa as well as my new one which is on a furling forestay.

And that isn't very often either

Robert, you shouldn't write spinnakers off as dangerous until you've sailed with people who are good at using them. The intarweb is hardly short of videos showing the hard of thinking trying stuff that's a bit beyond them.

And as a matter of fact, I know which sail I'd rather be dropping and getting downstairs in a sudden squall, and it certainly isn't a 135% hanked-on genoa!

Do come out for a little sail around the bay next time you're darn Sarf, I'd be glad to teach you.

 

[Foolish Muse]

Oh Yeah? #28 proves why I have just removed my spinnaker pole and spinnaker and they will probably never go back on board as long as I'm solo sailing.

Please don't give it up. You don't need to be anywhere as adventurous as some of us, but sailing with a spinnaker is just fun in any winds. I like to think that when sailing with a spinnaker:
in 5 knots you won't spill your wine, even when you set it down
in 10 knots your girlfriend will have a very pleasant evening sail
in 15 knots you will will have actual fun
in 20 knots you will have an adventure
in 25 knots you will be pushed beyond your limits
in 30 knots you have become an extreme skipper

So, Robert, just chose where you want to be and go for it.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Robert, you shouldn't write spinnakers off as dangerous until you've sailed with people who are good at using them. The intarweb is hardly short of videos showing the hard of thinking trying stuff that's a bit beyond them.

And as a matter of fact, I know which sail I'd rather be dropping and getting downstairs in a sudden squall, and it certainly isn't a 135% hanked-on genoa!

Do come out for a little sail around the bay next time you're darn Sarf, I'd be glad to teach you.

Please don't give it up. You don't need to be anywhere as adventurous as some of us, but sailing with a spinnaker is just fun in any winds. I like to think that when sailing with a spinnaker:
in 5 knots you won't spill your wine, even when you set it down
in 10 knots your girlfriend will have a very pleasant evening sail
in 15 knots you will will have actual fun
in 20 knots you will have an adventure
in 25 knots you will be pushed beyond your limits
in 30 knots you have become an extreme skipper

So, Robert, just chose where you want to be and go for it.

Thank you, both. I agree with all your points, and am grateful for your kind offer.
However, as I sail almost totally single-handed, I find single-handing a spinnaker a task too much.
I can do it, and have done it - and no doubt if I have a competent crew with me I might well fly one again.

But the older I get the more I'm looking to make life easier!!

I do agree that they look great (when behaving ) and can be fun - but the thought of a #28 experience, by myself, is definitely enough to put me off!

 

[tsekul]

When you gybe end for end it's relatively easy to get the jib sheets right. All you do is pick up the jib sheet on the new side and put it over your shoulder. Then stand at the mast and gybe the kite as normal, dropping the jib sheet over the end of the pole before you beak the new guy.

Ok been working on this. I have found the problem is if you gybe once on the run, as you come to the leeward mark. The hanked on jib is on the wrong side at the mark, if you try to move it to the other side in preparation for the mark rounding, this is when the sheets get messed up as when you drop the pole there is always a sheet under it

At the moment the answer is to always gybe twice so it always goes up and comes down on the same side.

Can’t seem to find any good resources all the different symmetrical spinnaker handling techniques. Ie what’s a Mexican douse .?
Thanks again for any input ?

 

[TLouth7]

Ok been working on this. I have found the problem is if you gybe once on the run, as you come to the leeward mark. The hanked on jib is on the wrong side at the mark, if you try to move it to the other side in preparation for the mark rounding, this is when the sheets get messed up as when you drop the pole there is always a sheet under it

At the moment the answer is to always gybe twice so it always goes up and comes down on the same side.

Consider a scenario where you round the windward mark and hoist on STBD tack. The pole is to STBD, the jib is along the PORT sidedeck. The STBD jib sheet goes forward of the pole downhaul (this happens automatically) and over the pole, outboard of the pole uphaul (placed there by the bow as she sets the pole). The PORT jib sheet is in its usual place along the PORT sidedeck, but don't cleat it tight as you will need some slack in a minute.

You now gype onto PORT tack.

The pole is tripped from the mast (and potentially old guy) and moved across the boat from STBD to PORT. The bow places the PORT jib sheet over the pole and secures the pole to the new (PORT) guy. It can help the bow to set up facing forward with the PORT jib sheet over her left shoulder, ready to place over the pole. If not already done the old (STBD) guy is released from the pole, and the pole is pushed to PORT. The STBD end of the pole is made fast to the mast. At some point in this process the STBD jib sheet will have dropped off the pole.

If you know that you will not gybe again you can now move the jib to the STBD sidedeck (taking it forward of the pole downhaul). A tug on the STBD jib sheet to tidy it up leaves you in a position that is entirely symmetrical to the original. Alternatively you should be able to hoist the jib from the PORT (windward) rail, perhaps with some encouragement to get it clear of the pole downhaul.

The key step is placing the relevant jib sheet over the pole during the set and whenever you gybe.

 

[TLouth7]

the main issue is that the sheet has to be over the pole in front of the uphaul. As you give you gybe the pole the sheet falls off and you need to place the other sheet over the new end. But if you have not moved the head sail to the other side, when you drop the pole you have to be really careful where all the lines are running. At the moment the quickest method is to forget the sheets gybe the pole. Unattach the sheets from the clew thread them through correctly and reattach. I know it’s not right and it’s annoying me
T

Just reread this comment from earlier in the thread.

As in my previous comment if you choose to move the jib across there should be no need to re-run any sheets, so long as you place the sheets over the pole.

I understand why dropping the pole and then trying to hoist the jib from the windward sidedeck is likely to end in a kerfuffle. We avoid this by hoisting the genoa first in most cases. Once the jib is up you can drop the kite as normal, but be careful that the lazy jib sheet doesn't drop off the pole and end up trapped underneath (preventing you from tacking).

Alternatively, imagine you are coming to the downwind mark, on PORT tack with the jib on the PORT sidedeck (as per the final situation in my last post) in marginal conditions such that you cannot hoist the jib before dropping the kite (see http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?501184-Spinnaker-douse-beam-reach-solo for ideas in this situation). One option is to drop the kite just before the mark, but leave the pole where it is. You are then free to hoist the jib, round the mark and luff up, but you will not be able to tack until you clear the pole (which will be sticking up to windward jauntily).