Bow Rollers and Moorings

[Guest]

Need some advice regarding a swinging mooring.

22ft Dehler, dangling from a mooring at Mylor, Cornwall.

The bow roller is not quite big enough for the size of chain the harbour authority requries. This means that I can not put the pin through the bow roller when the chain is on it.

Is it a bad thing if the pin goes THROUGH the link in the chain???? Obviously I'd need to still secure the chain to the cleat. I am wondering if securing the chain to the bow roller in this way is good practice or not.

I know the obvious solution is to use a short rope rode, but last year I had a nearly lost boat situation with a rope bridle so this year want the chain on deck!

So, should one secure a chain through a bow roller with a drop nosed pin pushed through a link of the chain?

Cheers for advice.

Euan

PS had a bit of a shock when I saw how much new bow rollers are... so a bigger one is not an option!!!

 

[Shanty]

Don't like the pin through chain solution. Any movement in the chain, and you will have a very bent pin. Sod's Law says the pin holes will coincide with the end of a link, and thus you will be forced to leave a little slack in the chain. First blow you have - bent pin, and possibly, bent stemhead fitting.

A far better solution, IMHO, is to modify the existing stemhead fitting. If its fabricated stainless steel, look at the possibility of getting a couple of extended cheek pieces welded on, to provide a location for a pin hole above the chain. If its cast, a solution I have used is to bolt a couple of strips of s/s plate to the cheeks of the stemhead fitting, again to provide a pin hole above the chain. You can use the existing pin holes in the stemhead fitting for the bolts.

 

[bigmart]

Why not use a smaller piece of chain, for the final link, as per your rope rode, but chain if you see what I mean.

I had a similar problem until earlier this year & found that. if you kept the last bit of chain, between the boat & Mooring Buoy, extremely short, that there was no need to use a pin in the bow roller. I kept two different boats on a mooring like this, for over three years & had no problems with the chain jumping out of the roller.

Martin

 

[vyv_cox]

I kept 27, 29 and 34 ft boats on Menai Strait for eight years or so and never used any form of pin. It is quite difficult to imagine any sort of conditions (and believe me the Menai Strait encounters plenty) that could cause a shortish length of heavy chain to jump off a roller. I would not use a pin through a link but I see no problem with a length of line or bungy to retain it, if you really don't have confidence that the chain will stay in place. Otherwise, as suggested, get two pieces welded on to the existing roller cheeks to extend them upwards.

 

[Trevor_swfyc]

I cannot see a problem if the pin is only stopping the chain from jumping off the bow roller. If the load which could bend the pin is taken by a cleat then all should be well. It may be worth considering using a padlock in place of the pin. This would help stop some idiot letting it free.
Hope this helps.
Trevor.

 

[jleaworthy]

I have had the same problem for the last few years with two different boats. I have abandoned the drop-nose pin in each case and simply replaced it with a length of line passing over the chain to prevent it leaping out of the roller. Never had the slightest problem, not even any appreciable chafe on the line.

 

[halcyon]

Had boats on moorings at Mylor since the late 80's. never used a pin, in one blow we had 15 boats sink, and 6 foot waves through the trots.

Brian

 

[Guest]

Light lashing in rope is fine...

As to rope rodes ......

I always advocate 3 lines - not a single as you often see. I normally on my heavy 25ft motor sailer had 3 x 10mm rope strops to the chain outside the bow. Each strop went to a different point to make fast ...... one to bow mooring point, second to anchor windlass, third to mast base.

WHY ?? Previous boat broke her samson post and she hung on the lashing for the mooring buoy to pulpit - survived a storm like that !!!! Samson post was oak !! So now more lines rather than bigger.

Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Avocet]

Re: Light lashing in rope is fine...

OK, I'll probably get pilloried for this but...

...I have a boat where the stemhead fitting is a bronze (maybe brass) casting and it only has a shallow depression in it so I have the same problem. I have a small hole in each side of it for a pin to pass through but if I use a straight pin, I can't even fit a 6mm chain under it. I ended up putting three small shackles across the gap to give me a bit of slack instead of using a rigid pin. After a while, I got fed up of the shackles and used a piece of string instead. (OK, 4mm braided cord). I kept the boat on a pretty exposed mooring in Beaumaris bay for a season like that with no problem and it's currently on Windermere with the same arrangement. My feeling is that there isn't really any load at all on the "pin" or whatever goes on top of the chain. It's just there to stop it jumping up if it ever goes slack enough for the bit of plastic anti-chafe tube to push it upwards. There's no way a chain itself can transmit an upward load!

Good luck!

 

[Eudorajab]

Waiting to get shot down here but I keep my 35 footer on a swinging mooring as well. I was always told and led to beleive that bringing the chain onboard was a no no. Why ? Firstly there is a lot less elasticity which in the big blows could damage the bow roller anyway along with the shock being transmitted to the cleat. Is this not the case ?

 

[Johnjo]

After having the rope cut on my boat I now have chain all the way,
and as a extra safety measure I use a padlock which I use to stop the
chain from being lifted off the samson post, no way will I use rope
again, but then, I do have a sheltered mooring so no jerking!

mike

 

[Jacket]

I used to use both a chain and rope. The rope warp was slightly shorter, so the boat hung of this, providing a degree of elasticity. The chain was there as back up if the rope chafed through, so you get the best of both worlds.

I think the boatyard that owned the moorings insisted on this set-up.

 

[Trevor_swfyc]

BANG!
If the mooring is set up correctly, with the correct weight of chain for both the ground chain and riser. Then the shock loading should be minimal as the effort of lifting the ground chain helps absorb the shock.
I know of a case where somebody thought it a good idea to put a snubber on the rope that attached the chain to the sampson post to help take up any shocks. The boat on an outgoing tide with the wind pushing up tide caused the boat to ride up on the riser chain. The snubber allowed the chain to move back and forth which cut two inches into one of his fibreglass bilge keels. If you want a further shock absorber then it should be on the lower end of the riser but it should not be necessary.
Trevor.

 

[bedouin]

I used to think that - then after the boat broken free from her moorings I changed my mind and put the chain round the cleat. In fact the boatyard where I now keep the boat insists on it.

The problem with rope is that in heavy weather it can chafe through in no time - and it is virtually impossible to protect all the chafe points sufficiently well to last through a typical winter storm (IMHO). In fact the chain does not impose bad snatch loads on the cleats as I had feared. The weight of the chain itself acts as a damper.

To return to the original question, I would strongly recommend making sure that the chain is secured so that it cannot jump out from the bow roller - if that happens the chain could saw the bows off the boat in no time at all. There was a picture in one of the mags a couple of years back showing a boat that had been severely damaged by the mooring chain.

 

[rex_seadog]

My boat is kept on a Dart Harbour swinging mooring and their regulations require you to moor to rope with chain as a back up. However, like many others (I hope DHNA are not reading this), I prefer to do it the other way round and hang off the chain. I can get the drop pin in over the chain but not with the rope there as well. The drop pin has a tendency to work its way out so, to overcome this, I tie a piece of cord just behind the 'dropping bit'. A couple of years ago the chain did in fact jump out of the bow roller and saw a 10 mm deep groove into the grp toe rail.

A previous boat (a Seawych) was moored nearby but on a private mooring rented from the Greenway (Agatha Christie) Estate. During the tail end of hurricane Lilli (I remember the name well) the riser broke and the boat ended up wrapped round an overhanging oak tree on the lee shore. Needless to say it was in a very sorry state, with the mast broken into three pieces and the windows cracked although the hull survived relatively unscathed. Although technically an insurance write-off I managed to get it all repaired for the next season but was unable to persuade the owners of the mooring from accepting responsibility. As a result I now tend to be a bit twitchy about moorings especially the bits I can't see.

 

[halcyon]

A passing question,
is that Truro harbour, and what size are they requiring.

Brian

 

[Guest]

Totally agree ....

I have had light cord lashing holding all my morring chains and never had a problem.
I did go for a pin one time and didn't see any point after a while ......

The beauty of the cord as well ..... its always replaceable, its always tied off there handy ......

Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[gjeffery]

My boat. like many modern GRP designs doesn't have a Sampson post or bits to which to make a chain fast. Do designers intend all plastic boats to moor up to pontoons?

I intend to put the boat on a swinging mooring, and I would welcome any advice on the suitability and practical difficulties of making the chain (about 6mm) fast onto the alloy mooring cleats located on the toe rail close to the bow.

In particular, is a single mooring cleat likely to be structually competent to withstand the mooring loads, and what is the best way of making the bitter end of the chain off, after it has been cleated?