Bottled gas in a boat Advice/Opinions please

[Guest]

The last owner of our new boat [Mirror Offshore] fitted a two burner gas cooker in a swing down box that fastens up on the cockpit bulkhead inside the boat. The gas supply, also inside the boat on the floor under the cockpit sole, is via reinforced rubber tube from the gas bottles screw in valve, all conections are secured by jubilee type clips.
Now the problem is, all that I have read says that this is an unsafe set up, yet all my friends [boat owning] and my wife, think that I am being overly cautious. As a compromise what about only using the thing by having the bottle separate and only conecting it when its out in the cockpit in the fresh air. But then what about any unburnt gas just prior to ingition, wont that seep down into the lower bilge and become a potetial danger. Whilst I may be able to vent the cookers tray to the outside, there is nowhere I can put a outside vented box for the gas bottle.
OK then lads and lassies what do I do ? Carry on as is , on the basis the risks are overstated ? Ditch the lot and get an alcahol/Meths cooker ? Shrink a 10lb gas cylinder down to match box size and keep in the cockpit ???? Advice and ideas Perleeze !! Oh and before the week end too...

 

[Guest]

Mike. ....I wouldn't be without gas on board for cooking, water heating etc. HOWEVER>>>NEVER keep your bottles inside. They MUST be outside. Find a spot somewhere near the pushpit for example. DO get a marine plumber to install. Dont do it yourself. Gas can go BANG if not looked after. Remember there are signs available that say "turn off gas at bottle" its the only way to stay safe.
Goosd luck
Brian J

 

[Guest]

I've no problem with gas in the boat but I wouldn't do it myself. Get a registered Corgi installer to set it up.It'll cost you more but you'll have an installation up to the latest safety standards.

 

[Guest]

not to mention...

if it is not installed by a registered Corgi engineer then it may impact your insurance if you then have a problem.

spend the extra £s and get peace of mind etc

cheers

Pete

 

[Guest]

For weekend trips, I use the smallest gas bottle I can find that is refillable and take it ashore every time and top it up. [You must have room one in the cockpit, even if you have to keep it in an exposed position tied securely with a bungy cord.] I have a fair idea how long my small bottle will last and have never run out unexpectedly.

If should be a low pressure system with a reduction valve attached to the cylinder. This only runs at a few lbs/sq in pressure and you can get away with pushing on a tight fitting tube at the cylinder connection, but jubilee connections are a better idea. Use the proper plastic gas fuel tubing. I use a transparent type so that I can visually check for any obstructions [insects making nests etc during the period when the bottle is disconnected].

When you light up, first make sure that cooker is turned off, turn on at cylinder and use a BBQ lighter flame [I never trust those pizo thingies], light your lighter or match first, then turn on at cooker and wait for gas to come through and ignite [mimimizes unburnt gas spillage].

When you stop cooking, always turn off at the cylinder so that the maximum gas in the line is used up and pressure becomes zero. When flame goes out turn off at cooker.

I have tried kerosene, meths, white spirits, diesel and any other contraptions on the market but always come back to bottle gas... hotter, cleaner, quicker, odourless, simplest and I consider to be the safest. All the other systems still have an explosive risk. As well, preheating etc can accumulate fumes in a dangerous manner. Fuel and preheating mixes are left lying about and are easy to spill when getting ready to cook. Also other devices often have a complicated light up ritual which not always runs smoothly and in itself can be more dangerous at that instance and cause further spills and explosive fumes accumulations and unpleasant smells.

Always ventillate well when cooking, to minimize accumulation of odours, moisture and the risks of carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide. Keep an eye on the flames as even the best system sometimes mysteriously goes out and unburnt gas running can be fatal.

I have been following this system for years now without any problems, but it only takes one mistake.

BOOM!!!....thats all folks.

 

[Guest]

And what should you do if unburnt gas does get into the bilges??

I haven't had the problem yet, but was wondering how to clear it? Does pumping the bilges work (I suspect in my modern, shallow draft, boat it wouldn't)? How long do you need to leave the boat without any sparks / matches / people before its "safe" again??

Cheers, Chris

 

[Guest]

You Must be Joking.

Mike, your installation is not legal, not safe and may well cost you a lot more than a rejected insurance claim.
Get that gas bottle outside and the connections installed by a registered gas fitter.
I have seen the end result of a gas explosion on a boat, started by sparks generated in the starter or generator/alternator, they pulled the skipper out through thr front hatch, he was at the companionway starting the enging just befor the bang. 4 months in bed and still has the scars.
Or is this whole gas thing a wind-up to get a few going?
Happy (safe) sailing....Old Salt

 

[Guest]

Re: You Must be Joking.

Dear Mr Salt, I assure this is a genuine question, and as you can see from the answers so far there is some divergance of opinion. My doubts caused me to remove the gas bottle from inside the boat as soon as I had bought it in September last. It's what to do now that is worrying me. Her indoors doesn't want "That bloody blue bottle" sitting in the cockpit but still wants her cup of tea. I think I may have to put my foot down with a firm hand about this. [look for portly yachtsman with black eye]

 

[Guest]

Further Thoughts

40yrs of personal experience and including ALWAYS FITTING my own gas appliances [IT IS A VERY SIMPLE TASK FOR A SAILOR... and you can not call in the expert tradesman if you are at sea, ... it is up to you alone in the end]. You may wish to fit a bilge blower, take a hot drink onboard in a vacuum flask, drink cold drinks, stay at home safe and sound and write letters to chat forums [although you may be struck by lightning].

 

[Guest]

Good +Bad advice.

As you say you have had some good advice and some downright dangerous advice.Speaking as a Corgi reg.fitter and yachtsman firstly it is not a legal requirement to have a corgi man do the work unless you live aboard permanently or if your boat is used as a commercial venture.However it is the safest option as only a trained person is able to carry out all the neccesary safety checks on the installation, it is essential that the materials and design of the installation meets relevant British Standards and gas safety regulations.Dont use plastic pipe as one idiot suggested could just be pushed onto the regulator spigot.I live in the real world and appreciate the difficulties of of installing gas lockers on so small a boat but the smaller size butane bottles are only about 7 inches high and will last several weekends.If there is no after deck to mount it on could it go on the coachroof at the base of the mast?The majority of the pipe must be copper tubing the fittings should be compression type and in accessible places .bulkhead fittings should be used where it passes through bulkheads or other panels.A pressure test point is needed to enable soundness testing and an isolating valve fitted close to the appliance with flexible tube suitable for LPG making the final connection.Ventilation is needed at high and low level to ensure adequate oxygen for complete combustion as incomplete combustion will produce carbon monoxide which is lethal.Never use your cooker as a cabin heater .Allways turn off the supply when not in use.You can find a CORGI FITTER on CORGI website by entering your postcode and the type of work you want done.If you are determined to DIY at least install a gas detector.I get mine from BES ring0800 80 10 90 and ask them to send you their mail order catalogue.Good sailing Safe cooking!

 

[Guest]

Trade Adds

I thought that this was a non trade promotion area. No wonder boaties are poor and tradesmen are rich. If you pay for this sort of service from a tailless dog then you deserve everything you pay for. This type of fitting could not be simpler and if you can not do it yourself then perhaps you should hire professional skipper and crew. As for plastic tubing.... use approved fuel line. LPG is liquid petroleum gas. You do not have to be a rocket scientist to figure out whether this will do. However if you are a corgi then I suppose that you have some sort of superior brain function. Don't be browbeaten by the bulley boy tactics of someone trying to make a quick quid. In the end the skipper is responsible for everything. Happy boating.

 

[Guest]

Re: Trade Adds

Jolly jack tar.How can you accuse me of trying to make a quick buck when all I offered the man was free advise?If any browbeating is occuring its from you trying to encourage the man to undertake a task he clearly and sensibly has reservations about.I have no idea where the man keeps his boat and in any case I never do gas work on boats as sailing is my relaxation and I like to keep work and play seperate. some of my friends are sometimes dissapointed that I wont undertake any work on their boats despite doing the gaswork at their homes.You call me a tailess little dog ,not very original,Isuggest you are a little dog who has picked up the wrong end of the stick.

 

[Guest]

Re: Good +Bad advice.

As a registered corgi fitter can you confirm whether any part of your training is specifically aimed at installing gas in boats. I have asked 3 in 2 different areas and they said they were not interested

 

[Guest]

Re: Good +Bad advice.

all I can say to that graham is ......WHEW!!! ...next time think of your reader old son ....break it up a bit ...add a few paragraphs ....make it easy to read!!

 

[Guest]

PS Graham

just ignore jollyjack Graham , I wasnt impressed with his reply either...I had a building company and know the value of Corgi!..gas is perfectly safe, JUST AS LONG AS ITS HANDLED CORRECTLY!

and as for the reply that said 2 out of 3 arent interested....would you be if you had to drop a days work worth £100+ to make £20.00?

 

[Guest]

Re: Good +Bad advice.

If in doubt check the back of the installers ID card which lists the type of work he/she has been assesed as safe to work on.

At present there are 92 seperate areas that a Corgi installer can be trained and assessed on(at his own cost)obviously most only take the assesments they need on a daily basis .

Possibly your local boat builder /repairer could put you on to someone.

 

[Guest]

Point taken johnt *NM*

 

[Guest]

My last word

I seem to have upset someone. I think I have made my point well. What sort of dropdead drongo is unable to place a gas bottle in a secure and well ventilated place and to safely secure a length of hose to the gas bottle and not have a leak. More skill is required to mend a leaking garden water hose. To advise and consider that only an expert and qualified Corgi is capable of doing such a task is a sad indictment on the sorry state of the British trade and reflects on the decline of the nation. To consider oneself to be a yachtsman and be incapable of carrying out DIY tasks, basic mechanical servicing or the understanding of how simple mechanical things work is to be a menace to your crew, to imperil anyone in range and be a disaster awaiting to happen. Stay at home or prop up the bar at the Yacht Club and we will all be the better for it.
P.S. I also enjoy a good argument

 

[Guest]

Re: My last word

jacktar You havent offended me ,everyone is entitlled to an opinion,wether you need to be so abrasive in the way you present yours is for you to decide.

I imagine you ,like me, come from the school of having to DIY everything from neccesity.My previous craft include a self built Lysander,an Eventide that we totally restored and so on.Like you I strongly believe in defending our freedom to use the sea without bureaucracy.

If you read my posting carefully You would have noticed I provided details of a gas fitters mail order magazine ,so whoever does the work can obtain the correct bits and bobs if they feel competent to do the job.

Incidently,why do you remove the pipe from the regulator every time instead of disconecting the regulator from the bottle?This would reduce the chance of a leak forming due to the end of the pipe wearing .And as you say stop any ingress of foreign objects. Also why use fuel hose when the correct hose is probably cheaper and will be more acceptable if an insurance survey is needed.

Happy and Safe sailing Graham

 

[Guest]

Re: My last word

my comment is ..a lot of people arent aware just how dangerous lp gas can be, take my own boat ..when I bought it the sides of the gas locker had been cut out to take a bigger gas bottle..and the regulator was hard piped,

hands up everyone who thinks that leaked gas will just waft away on the breeze?...and not sink straight down into the bilges?