petem
Well-Known Member
That's an impressive badge looks like chrome over some kind of CNC cut metal or plastic.
Boot Düsseldorf 2019
- Thread starter henryf
- Start date
That's an impressive badge looks like chrome over some kind of CNC cut metal or plastic.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
I'm just hoping that as per their motoring heritage it doesn't mean that the electrics will all start going to sh1t
I.
Better than the IMS bearings going kaboom and the nikisal linings on the cylinder walls peeling off .
Which cemetery was the guy who penned the panamera mk 1 buried in btw
Actually on a serious note I wonder if the latest Ferrari’s are still Pininfarina work ? Since the 488 they have gone off a bit .
I,ll ask @ Geneva early March as I usually get an invite on the stand or see if I can spot the Pin badge on the lower LHS in front of the rear wheels of the latest shapers .
Powersalt
Well-Known Member
I am trying to understand how the yacht market prices have risen so quickly over the last few years. I have not followed prices per year but when I compare 7 years ago to now I dare to say its 3 times the price . Any thoughts as to why so far above inflation
jrudge
Well-Known Member
Discussed a few times and I think no one knows!
The manufacturers are not making significant money as far as anyone can see.
The new model cycle is now far faster than it was. Squadron 58 lasted 8 or so years. Princess now seem to launch models every few months so r and d and tooling must take its toll.
The interiors are mostly more lavish and complex and hi low etc all have a cost.
Still tricky to understand the price inflation.
EricJ
Well-Known Member
Excellent write-up, Henryf and thanks for taking the time. Did you perhaps pick up what happened to the F50 that was supposed to be displayed at the show? On the Princess show announcement the F50 was listed, but it was not there. I guess this must be some type of F49 facelift. The person I spoke with did not know.
MrB
Well-Known Member
Excellent write-up as usual Henry, thanks for taking the time to post it. :encouragement:
Bigplumbs
Well-Known Member
Excellent write up and nice for those of us that failed to get to the show...… I personally can only dream of such boats but it is nice looking.
I was struck by how square and therefor sharp the corners on the furniture are. Could be painful in a chop...………… Still lovely boats though
I was struck by how square and therefor sharp the corners on the furniture are. Could be painful in a chop...………… Still lovely boats though
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
There is a lot of variants why the prices have gone up.
The first is that dealer commissions have increased, and that used boats depreciation is now much faster especially from new and in the first five years.
Trades are part of the business and newer used boats take a lot longer to sell.
Some markets have actually really slowed down, local UK and Italian market are the prime slow movers. These markets sub 20 meters are mostly very active nowadays in the used brokerage part.
Yes new boats are selling but much less to what they used to do. Much less.
As for Pininfarina what is now a design house, this is not the first entry into yacht design.
They did Jeanneau and or Beneteau in the past (90s), then in 2005 joined forces with Bruno Abbate Primatist first doing the G70, and now have all the G and B lines from 41 to 62 feet from his signature.
I think that the Princess board decided to counter Fairline marketing's of Mancini.
Personally the Princess use of Pininfarina for the R35 was a good stint, but for the rest I am not so convinced.
For example some of the details of the F45 do look to cool for a flybridge motor cruiser and are out of place IMO.
Btw that radar arch is very previous Ferretti 510 and 631.
IMO when a flybridge boat tries to be a hybrid sport cruiser and flybridge it always fail.
The only builder which actually managed to this but as a secondary model was Galeon with its Skydeck series.
It succeeded because its Skydeck series is another model produced with the Fly series.
Ferretti and battery boxes. How dare you criticize wood the most noble and green of materials....
I think one of the most important notices of the boat show actually came from Sunseeker who hired ex Ferretti Group engineer Frabetti.
This was a very clever move from Sunseeker. Frabetti oversaw all Ferretti Group models in its most vibrant years (2002 to 2010) with Norberto and the rest of the guys (Antonelli for Pershing and Itama, Aprea with Cataldo etc etc). He also oversaw and did most of the project what was a very clever move but somehow vanished in nothing the Mochi Long Range 23M.
That was a boat ahead of its time IMO, and I still do not understand how FG never actually tried to do a small Long Range 19 or 20 meter.
I think there is also some Frabetti in the upcoming 80 to 90 feet Sunseeker 8X. Definitely a competitor to the Sanlorenzo SX86.
His recent project are the Anvera maxi-rib. A client of mine bought the 48 a semi-custom product but the consumption for 12 tons and 14 meters are impressive about 3 liters per mile.
Anyways Google them.
The first is that dealer commissions have increased, and that used boats depreciation is now much faster especially from new and in the first five years.
Trades are part of the business and newer used boats take a lot longer to sell.
Some markets have actually really slowed down, local UK and Italian market are the prime slow movers. These markets sub 20 meters are mostly very active nowadays in the used brokerage part.
Yes new boats are selling but much less to what they used to do. Much less.
As for Pininfarina what is now a design house, this is not the first entry into yacht design.
They did Jeanneau and or Beneteau in the past (90s), then in 2005 joined forces with Bruno Abbate Primatist first doing the G70, and now have all the G and B lines from 41 to 62 feet from his signature.
I think that the Princess board decided to counter Fairline marketing's of Mancini.
Personally the Princess use of Pininfarina for the R35 was a good stint, but for the rest I am not so convinced.
For example some of the details of the F45 do look to cool for a flybridge motor cruiser and are out of place IMO.
Btw that radar arch is very previous Ferretti 510 and 631.
IMO when a flybridge boat tries to be a hybrid sport cruiser and flybridge it always fail.
The only builder which actually managed to this but as a secondary model was Galeon with its Skydeck series.
It succeeded because its Skydeck series is another model produced with the Fly series.
Ferretti and battery boxes. How dare you criticize wood the most noble and green of materials....
I think one of the most important notices of the boat show actually came from Sunseeker who hired ex Ferretti Group engineer Frabetti.
This was a very clever move from Sunseeker. Frabetti oversaw all Ferretti Group models in its most vibrant years (2002 to 2010) with Norberto and the rest of the guys (Antonelli for Pershing and Itama, Aprea with Cataldo etc etc). He also oversaw and did most of the project what was a very clever move but somehow vanished in nothing the Mochi Long Range 23M.
That was a boat ahead of its time IMO, and I still do not understand how FG never actually tried to do a small Long Range 19 or 20 meter.
I think there is also some Frabetti in the upcoming 80 to 90 feet Sunseeker 8X. Definitely a competitor to the Sanlorenzo SX86.
His recent project are the Anvera maxi-rib. A client of mine bought the 48 a semi-custom product but the consumption for 12 tons and 14 meters are impressive about 3 liters per mile.
Anyways Google them.
Last edited:
henryf
Well-Known Member
Glad you’re enjoying my rambling thoughts.
Didn’t ask Princess the specifics of which boats were on their stand. It’s usually down to production schedule and customer willingness to have their boat on show. There is also a limit as to what can be shown. 1 boat runs late in production, another unexpectedly becomes available.... For me personally the F55 fly wasn’t there but I appreciate they needed to represent the whole range in a limited window. Possibly the Swanwick show is best place to see one again.
Did Princess HAVE to bring in Pininfarina? Probably not but it gives a fresh input to the in house design team and prevents them getting stale. Funnily enough I’ve never been a huge fan of the Fendi element with the larger craft preferring the in house styling found lower down the range.
Crossover sports / flybridge boats a failure? Do you not think the Princess S65 is a fantastic boat? I’ve always thought they were one of the stars of the range. One pitched up last year when we were anchored near Bembridge and immediately made us feel ugly
Wood is not a bad material per-se just not for a battery box designed to contain acid, trap gas and I’m not sure how screwing into end grain fares when battling against heavy batteries getting thrown around in rough seas.
I have some more boats to discuss when I’m back at the main computer including my discovery of the show......
Stay tuned folks.
Henry
Didn’t ask Princess the specifics of which boats were on their stand. It’s usually down to production schedule and customer willingness to have their boat on show. There is also a limit as to what can be shown. 1 boat runs late in production, another unexpectedly becomes available.... For me personally the F55 fly wasn’t there but I appreciate they needed to represent the whole range in a limited window. Possibly the Swanwick show is best place to see one again.
Did Princess HAVE to bring in Pininfarina? Probably not but it gives a fresh input to the in house design team and prevents them getting stale. Funnily enough I’ve never been a huge fan of the Fendi element with the larger craft preferring the in house styling found lower down the range.
Crossover sports / flybridge boats a failure? Do you not think the Princess S65 is a fantastic boat? I’ve always thought they were one of the stars of the range. One pitched up last year when we were anchored near Bembridge and immediately made us feel ugly
Wood is not a bad material per-se just not for a battery box designed to contain acid, trap gas and I’m not sure how screwing into end grain fares when battling against heavy batteries getting thrown around in rough seas.
I have some more boats to discuss when I’m back at the main computer including my discovery of the show......
Stay tuned folks.
Henry
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Better than the IMS bearings going kaboom and the nikisal linings on the cylinder walls peeling off .
Which cemetery was the guy who penned the panamera mk 1 buried in btw
Actually on a serious note I wonder if the latest Ferrari’s are still Pininfarina work ? Since the 488 they have gone off a bit .
I,ll ask @ Geneva early March as I usually get an invite on the stand or see if I can spot the Pin badge on the lower LHS in front of the rear wheels of the latest shapers .
The last Ferrari Pininfarina penned was the 458 circa 2012 ,they parted Co with Ferrari circa 2014 , the newest shapers like the 488 are indeed in house , zero Pininfarina work and tbo it shows as the latest crop lack a certain beauty that the Pininfarina ones had in spades
So that explains a lot .
They have totally got out ( for the mo ) form automotive hence involvement in other design sectors .
Well thus far there boats ( recent Princess) are as beautiful as there cars where .
pks1702
Well-Known Member
Great write up and images Henry.
The Prinny 45 certainly looks to be a great use of space and sets a new bar in this size range.
The Prinny 45 certainly looks to be a great use of space and sets a new bar in this size range.
Powersalt
Well-Known Member
Yes it seems so, but why no door to heads from Forward cabin, and why such low headroom in owners main sleeping cabin???
roa312
Well-Known Member
Thank you very much for taking the time to do all of these write-ups Henry! It is very much appreciated! I have personally never been to Boot Dusseldorf but hope to go sometime in the future.
Did you get a feel for whether these are good/bad/flat times for the manufacturers? Based on the number of new models that is being introduced it seems like good times. But as other have commented it may be that the lifespan of new models have just decreased due to competition?
Did you get a feel for whether these are good/bad/flat times for the manufacturers? Based on the number of new models that is being introduced it seems like good times. But as other have commented it may be that the lifespan of new models have just decreased due to competition?
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Well spotted P. Thats a major cock up by Princess. The upper cleats are virtually unusable for Med stern lines and as you say you wouldnt trust the lower cleats to take the load from the stern lines. The lower cleats are also useless for cross lines because they'd probably foul the tender. Not sure how that got past the senior management sign off
Many thanks to Henry for his excellent reports
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
I also find it hard to understand is why new motorboat prices have outstripped inflation for many years. With most industrial products, increasing production efficiency should mean that prices decrease in relative terms but the boat building industry doesnt seem to have been able to make itself any more efficient. This is purely a personal opinion but I dont think the overall quality of build and finish on new production boats from the mainstream builders matches those ever increasing prices either. It seems to me that most boats are built down to a price but the prices keep going up
What that means is that a new boat purchase is becoming ever more discretionary and thats fine when the global economy is doing well but come the next recession, some builders could be in serious trouble
petem
Well-Known Member
What makes the upper cleats so bad?
Portofino
Well-Known Member
See post #22 .
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Look at the price index inflation of the resins - basic raw materials of a boat .
That’s a very large over 10 years . Double or even triple digit rise .
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Because they're sunk into the grp moulding and the stern lines will be rubbing on the outside of the moulding
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
I know its a glib thing to say but if thats the case and that is the reason that boat prices outstrip inflation then maybe the boat industry should be looking for another material to make boats out of