Boats with Perkins T6354 - Sourcing spares.

[sharpness]

Hello, and firstly a big thank you to you all for the contribution to an excellent forum, the information, and peoples experiences available on here is excellent.
Although i am still currently classified as a landlubber (the dream of boat purchase is getting nearer), i am finding there are a number of tempting priced boats which are powered by Perkins T6354 (dating from mid 70s to early 80s), but from doing previous searches on here it seems spares, and in-particular rebuild kits for these engines are a non-starter. Therefore would purchasing a boat with these engines mean a re-engine has to be factored into future costings (i do understand that these units are reliable, but everything has a shelf life), and therefore what initially looks to be good value for money turns out to be an unwise choice.
I assume people who own boats with these engines are resowned to the fact if major works were due, then a re-engine is on the cards, or are there still suppliers out there?

Thank you in advance for any advice given.

 

[mainshiptom]

used to have a Mainship 40 with two of those I used ASAP which are vbrialient

http://www.asap-supplies.com/marine/engine-spares-and-components


Tom

 

[volvopaul]

Hi the horizontal engine is the hard one to find certain parts for, but the standard upright motor is easy to get parts for so I wouldn't worry. The early ones were handed ie left hand rotation some parts like pumps starters and camshafts are now obsolete. Buy wise and you will still have a great motor.

 

[sharpness]

Thank you Tom and Paul for your input, much appreciated.

Paul, now including the HT6354, in your experience are there other units out there which should be avoided due to lack off supply for major rebuild items. I am aware that BMW as fitted in Birchwood TS37s should be avoided, just wondered if there was anything else to add to the list. For example are boats fitted with ford units still a safe buy (again we would be talking the 80s era).

Kind regards Jon.

 

[volvopaul]

Hmmm id talk to Cyril Snare at Mermaid engines, also Mike bellamy at Lancing marine about Dorset and Dover based Ford units also you can try Golden arrow about Sabre engines they will tell you whts still available.

As for Perkins the HT 6354 is your choice ive given you my opinion.

Where you could score is by buying something thats been cherished and you really like the boat for what it is but buy cheap and re engine, now I now for a moment your hearts just missed a beat seeing ££££££££££££££££ but ive re engined many boats that owners jus love with more modern engines both new and used to bring them into line with todays standards owners expect. example the big heavy Ford or Perkins at say 130hp from 6 cylinders and 6 litres can now be matched from under 4 litres and 4 cylinders which is a saving in size, weight etc. I recently worked on a Cox and Haswell/ souter 39 that was re engined over 10 years ago with Yanmar 170s 4 cylinder lump, the same lump now is 240hp plus, just hows how tech has come on from the same block, the weight difference when this particular boat was done made the boat sit over and inch out of the water when it was re engined, over the HT6354s.

I know here there a plenty of volvo and yanmar used motors that can be revived again that are suitable for transplants.

As far as im aware pistons gaskets liners etc for the 6354 are on the shelf so id not worry there, most chrome linered fords are best revamped with new cast liners and pistons but require engine removal for that, where as some boats like the Powles 46 im doing at the moment benefit from an engineroom whereby the engine can be re linered etc still inside the boat, so id throw some ides at us as to what model of boats your thinking of so wecan tell you if its a good long term investment or not.

 

[sharpness]

A very informative reply, thank you.

The reason for my asking was that a number of boats which appear on the wishlist are powered by units where i hadn't heard of rebuilds taking place (not including volvo or cummins), and so wrongly assumed that those parts were no longer available. As you rightly say a good many owners will choose new power plants for their pride and joy giving a whole new lease of life to the vessel.
For myself currently, the plan was to keep on saving towards (no direct experience of any of the following except from what i have researched and admired since a youth), either Fairline Turbo, Birchwood TS37, Humber 38, with a mix of river and coastal work being the aim. But the impatient side of me has seen that there are Brooms and Moonraker Super 36s (before the forum chastise about the Raker, can't help it, have always had a fondness of them) that are in touching distance now pricewise. Head says wait it out, heart says buy a boat now

With regards the re-engine being done on the Powles, i have followed the owners post with interest, as i remember seeing her on the severn and later down cardiff bay area, will be a credit to the owner when all complete.

Thanks again.

 

[mersey]

The Technical Co-Ordinator of the Broom Owner's club has produced a document that details the spares situation of the H6.354 and HT6.354, and sources of supply.

The only part that this document shows as not being easily available, either in original or modern equivalent form, is the oil scavenge pump. Although the club report success in having had these repaired. Lancing marine are also working on or have a alternative.

 

[steverow]

perkins

Hi
I managed to source many spares for my 6354's from Tad Transatlantic diesels in the US. Cheaper than Diperk. Other source is Mike Bellamy at Lancing Marine. Between the two of them they should have most of what you need. Good solid reliable engines, plod on forever. Don't change them.

www.tadiesels.com

 

[Latestarter1]

Just a quick reality check. Whilst the T6.354 was a decent motor in its time the youngest motors are now just over 30 years old.

Owners of boats with them installed tend to paint a rosy picture, sometimes a little too rosy.

#1 Contra rotating engines HAVE to be considered a replacement project.

#2 Horizontal engines also need to be given a wide berth. A contra rotating horizontal just forget it.

#3 The design of the exhaust manifold is flawed, being raw water cooled. The engineering team at Perkins doing the Dot4 6.354 marinisation in the 80's dug though all the documenation on the original 6.354 marinisation and never worked out the logic behind the design. Manifolds designed to fail in seawater and replacement are expensive and on HT6.354's failure can be catostropic.

#4 If you have version with hydraulically governed CAV DPA pump Delpi stopped making most parts a number of years ago. Still pump parts on the shelf in many places however as people are seeking to reduce inventory, slow moving parts go in the skip.

If you have a pair of vertical conventional rotating engines that are not using oil life is good, provided that you can put up with the start up smoke. Just soldier on.

However when you start looking at what to do with a pair of tired motors the picture changes dramatically. Recently came across owner who had invested over £7K a pop in having pair of motors re-built, one a contra rotating engine. Time on the water lost during the year chasing overheating problems on the contra rotating engine which now looks like head needs to be pulled and one of the CAC's requires replacement. These engines were never brilliant in terms of head gasket integrity when new and shiny.

Parts also used to cost peanuts and easy to source, trying to deal with Diperk too often and you lose the will to live!

Unless you are a very hands on owner you can quickly become a member of the 'give us another grand' club.

 

[volvopaul]

There is one parts man at diperk who is brilliant, I wont mention his name but he went to the trouble to cross refer Perkins to volvo, you would not believe the price difference for the same genuine part.

Yes ive always found the cast raw cooled manifold a big joke, the later range 4 engines had alloy fresh water cooled design.

Never understood why they bothered with 1000 series motor using old tech on the crank etc, the 300mti marine unit must be one of the worst ever for reliability, Broom fell foul of fitting there units many a time.

 

[burgundyben]

Yes ive always found the cast raw cooled manifold a big joke, the later range 4 engines had alloy fresh water cooled design.

There's a very straight forward mod to include the manifold in the fresh water loop, i've been trying to get round to it for ages, by the time I do it'll be too late and they'll be rotted out.

 

[volvopaul]

There's a very straight forward mod to include the manifold in the fresh water loop, i've been trying to get round to it for ages, by the time I do it'll be too late and they'll be rotted out.

Ben ive done it on one engine but the excess heat from the manifold at full chat puts the heat exchanger well on its limit, the loop is easy, as is the divert to the exhaust elbow for the raw water, but by that time bits of flaking cast iron are fed into the block so its only a good idea to do it when replacing an exhaust manifold, which was the case for my experiment.

 

[burgundyben]

Ben ive done it on one engine but the excess heat from the manifold at full chat puts the heat exchanger well on its limit, the loop is easy, as is the divert to the exhaust elbow for the raw water, but by that time bits of flaking cast iron are fed into the block so its only a good idea to do it when replacing an exhaust manifold, which was the case for my experiment.

I've never got around to doing it, I can never get mine to run at more than 80 degrees flat out and so I always kind of thought it would cope with the extra heat.

Its more likely that I'll be building a pair of Cummins B's for her before I kill a Perkins.