Boat Size - space vs practicality

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Nealo

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I know this subject will have been debated many times but I would like to approach it from a slightly different angle. I came across a site in the USA dedicated to advising potential liveaboards and some of the comments quite surprised me. Those who were interviewed seemed to imply that the biggest mistake potential liveabords make is to buy a boat that is too big, because it undermines the fundamental appeal of a life afloat. For instance, one guy was adamant that anyone contemplating the liveaboard lifestyle should buy the smallest boat they think they can get away with and if necessary acquire some form of storage on dry land.
I know there is no right and wrong on this issue, but I'd be interested to hear whether members agree with this point of view and whether anyone admits to making such a mistake?
 
As a general guide I would say a boat that you can standup and pull your trousers up in the loo,that the main anchour is manageable with a manual windlass and does not take all day to get ready to sail would be parameters for a liveaboard.With vast wads of cash of course anything is feasable but for hands on sailing,without paid crew the smaller the better.
 
Size matters ...

Mogy's got a lot right. We made the decision on the biggest anchor we could handle manually if we absolutely had to (aided by adrenaline) and worked back from that to boat size. (The Pardey's essay on Cabo St Lucas was very influential.) Using old-gen anchors, this arrived at 40' heavy displacement, at the most. We looked at 36 to 40', bought a 40' ketch, and that's fine.

For six years we didn't own a house and had no formal storage ashore except some papers in a friends loft. We still don't need the house. You do get very ruthless with stuff, and we would probably struggle with under 40', but that's partly cos we like having friends to stay and 36' is tight for that.

Standing room and space to turn around in the heads are absolutely crucial. But otherwise the size you know you and your real crew are able to handle is the key determining factor. And if you get bigger, the things you need to handle the boat get more complicated (eg electric winches) so you need to factor in time/expertise/money to deal with them. Plus the mooring fees go up.

So finance and boat handling ability are really the main things.
 
The advice you often hear is buy the smallest boat you can live in comfortably rather than the largest you can afford. I think those are wise words.

After 3 years as a liveaboard I think we could have bought something smaller than the 42ft Moody we chose. At first it seemed very small after living in a house but, over time, it seems to have grown and as you get used to the simple life you realise you have packed a load of junk that you will never need into lockers. We are probably due a major sort out and that should create even more room.

I agree with Roaring Girl though, its nice to have the room to put friends up from time to time.

If you are cruising in the med their is a big difference in mooring charges once you get over 12m LOA.

Do I regret my choice? Emphatically not! We thought long and hard about what was important to us - and we feel we got it right.
 
It really does depend on what you mean by "liveaboard". If you are doing it to "escape" modern life and adopt a minimalist lifestyle then that is good advice. If, on the other hand you wish to spend part of your life on a boat while retaining much of your shorebound lifestyle then you are more likely to choose the largest boat you can afford - which may in turn restrict the sort of voyaging you can undertake depending on the ability of you and your crew to handle your boat in the conditions you are likely to encounter.

In other words there is no advice from others that makes your decision for you - only your own assessment of what you want to get out of life, what you can afford, and how best to achieve your objectives.
 
Not just size but also consider design (two 30 footers can have vast differences in amount of space), where will you be going in it, where will you be based (hot/cold climate). Go and see as many as you can...

Oh, could you post a link to the site you mention please?
 
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When we first started and had no kids, our 36 footer was fine. We have since moved up to 38ft (centre cockpit so large aft cabin) and it's feeling too small. Mainly because of the children's toys and books etc.

Ideally, and a lot depends on your personal circumstances here, somewhere between 37 and 45 ft is a good starting point.

Where do you plan on going and how many of you are there?
 
Very roughly, cost, worry, hassle, time, effort to do anything, scale with the length of the boat cubed. Think about cost of a new halyard, effort the take off and put on the main, ease and cost of replacing a roller reefing system etc etc.

The impact of that factoid depends on the sort of boat and what you plan to do with it. Thus if you plan to spend your life tied to the bank in a canal, the impact is small. Strangely (and arguably) , if you plan to spend your time on long trade winds passages, interspersed with time at anchor in relatively remote places, and provided you know what you are doing, I think the disadvantages of size are reduced and the benefits increased. But if you plan to for example cruise the med. with lots of shortish passages and lots of days in crowded anchorages, marinas or ports, then the down side of size will be at its maximum.
 
Some consider our Sadler 34 to be on the small side although we find it plenty big enough. In the past three or four years we have met several solo sailors and couples, some full time liveaboards and others aboard for the summer months, living on Sadler 26. I would find it very difficult to fit all my stuff in a boat that small but they all seemed to be perfectly happy.
 
How small is big?

There is no hard and fast rule but, as with all vogues, the pendulum has probably swung to the "large" extreme.
For liveaboard use the cosy weekender becomes a trifle cramped, hence the established wisdom of going for as large a boat as you can.

Having taken such advice many find that:-
1. The boat is too large to handle comfortably (either single- or 2-handed).
2. No money left in the budget to fit the boat for comfortable/safe cruising.
3. The costs of mooring/berthing, especially away from home waters become a tribulation.

So in generalised terms I think the OP was on to a verity.

So, standing headroom, the longest waterline you can get (makes for fast passages and increased stowage capacity) and O/A between 9m (for single handing) and 14m for a foursome would appear to be the optimum compromise.
 
I originally planned to build a 36fter but stretched to 39ft on Kelsall's advice.
I also found out at the time that many NZ yachties regarded around 40ft as both the largest boat a couple could easily handle and the smallest a couple could live on for extended periods.
I still think that's about right altho the boat does seem bigger the longer you spend on it.
And with just a couple onboard the rear cabin is unoccupied but used as a garage.
We are carrying "essential junk" of course. If only I knew which items I would never need!
Dare I mention a same length cat will give much more space and shoal draft ability!!
 
"If you are cruising in the med there is a big difference in mooring charges once you get over 12m LOA."

I agree with silver-fox, of all the books we read and all the advice we got no one ever mentioned this. Even if you anchor all the time you will still have to winter somewhere and there is usually a very big difference between under and over 12m.

So, buy the largest boat you can safely get away with calling 11.99m.
 
I'm not yet full time live aboard, however when selecting the boat I chose time honoured system of using a spread sheet and listing all the things I wanted to do and have available, then found I missed a couple of hundred lines for items I had given no thought to some types of boats and designs had as standard.

It took 3 years to complete the list and filter though all the boats I could find that I considered worth checking against the list, then almost 4 years to find the boat.

As we are based on the East coast of Oz we need a boat with very good ventilation, a huge cockpit, fixed B-B-Q and fish cutting board with at least 4 rod holders. Plenty of refrigeration capacity, must hold at least 2 slabs of beer and still have capacity for ice making.

Be able to walk right round the deck fighting that big fish, have room to stow a good size rubber duck, an electric anchor winch and plenty of chain, rope not much use around coral reefs.

Minimum 3 cabins not including the lounge, helps reduce the number of drunk drivers. Two wet lockers for wet suits and diving gear and a locker for all fishing tackle.

A good size shower and electric toilet with a vanity unit along side it. Fuel capacity of 300 litres and the same for drinking water both are only filled to capacity on long trips.

Able to take to ground with no fuss and no legs and a draft of less than 0.5 metres.

Yes it's a 42 foot cat and I'm loving it and have done for a few years now.

Avagoodweekend......:)
 
Misnomer

oldsaltoz said:
I'm not yet full time live aboard, however when selecting the boat I chose time honoured system of using a spread sheet and listing all the things I wanted to do and have available, then found I missed a couple of hundred lines for items I had given no thought to some types of boats and designs had as standard.

It took 3 years to complete the list and filter though all the boats I could find that I considered worth checking against the list, then almost 4 years to find the boat.

As we are based on the East coast of Oz we need a boat with very good ventilation, a huge cockpit, fixed B-B-Q and fish cutting board with at least 4 rod holders. Plenty of refrigeration capacity, must hold at least 2 slabs of beer and still have capacity for ice making.

Be able to walk right round the deck fighting that big fish, have room to stow a good size rubber duck, an electric anchor winch and plenty of chain, rope not much use around coral reefs.

Minimum 3 cabins not including the lounge, helps reduce the number of drunk drivers. Two wet lockers for wet suits and diving gear and a locker for all fishing tackle.

A good size shower and electric toilet with a vanity unit along side it. Fuel capacity of 300 litres and the same for drinking water both are only filled to capacity on long trips.

Able to take to ground with no fuss and no legs and a draft of less than 0.5 metres.

Yes it's a 42 foot cat and I'm loving it and have done for a few years now.

Avagoodweekend......:)
Click to expand...

Sorry, cobber! That's not a yacht;)---it's a CRUISE LINER!!:eek:
 
The bed's the thing . . .

.
We lived on a 27-footer for a year.

The thing that made it tolerable was the large forepeak. We had a big, comfortable double bed that did not involve dismantling and remantling the saloon once a day, and this plus standing headroom in the saloon are I believe the two most critical factors if you are considering a small liveaboard.

(Many 33-footers have much smaller forepeaks than ours, and would therefore IMO have been much less comfortable as liveaboards in spite of more storage and a proper chart table. The cramped forepeak would have bugged us with monotonous regularity - on a daily basis).
If you are looking for something bigger, it is all down to budget and personal preference. If I was offered a free choice of boat as a gift tomorrow I still don't think I would go over 35ft unless the gift included a sizeable annual contribution to running costs.

- W
 
webcraft said:
.
We lived on a 27-footer for a year.

The thing that made it tolerable was the large forepeak. We had a big, comfortable double bed that did not involve dismantling and remantling the saloon once a day, and this plus standing headroom in the saloon are I believe the two most critical factors if you are considering a small liveaboard.
.

- W
Click to expand...

I have to say the the comment about the comfortable double bed is a good one!

One our key criteria was a comfortable isalnd/centreline) double bunk. Basically it just means you can get out either side - so no need to disturb your partner when you get up in the middle of the night!!

May not seem to important but I would not want to be without this feature.

We also wanted full sitting headroom above the bunk for ease of getting in and out and for reading and........

We ended up selecting a Moody with a large aft cabin - Fabulous decision as it turns out. There is a widely held belief that aft cabins are stuffy and hot, but ours is cool and has plenty of ventilation and delivers privacy when we have guests.
 
Just been through the process...

I've just been through those very thought process's as a first time liveaboard following a marriage separation... loved the idea of living aboard but comming from a 4 bed house nearly fell for a 70 odd ft ex trawler... very glad I didn't... I think I'd be pretty fed up now if I had of done.. I finally came to my senses and realised that if I wanted to cruise then I would need to be able to manage the boat alone. I ended up with a 42' trawler yacht... I'm still getting used to the downsizing thing... boat wardrobe is full and house wardrobe isn't..!! But already i only wear a limited amount of the clothes I've got on board so i guess I've yet to learn that ruthless thing about ditching clutter but I'm getting there... I have a full size double bed in the aft cabin with a proper matress ( not just a lump of foam!! ). I also realised what has already been mentioned which is the cost jump between a 40' footer and 60+ it would have been huge.... not just berthing but lift outs repairs and all.
I have to say I don't subscribe to the get as small as you can manage line of thought I'm more as large as you can comfortably handle up to about 45'. Its nice to have a bit of space and not be totally cramped in but a lot of that will be personal preference... cheers Iain
 
Nealo said:
I know this subject will have been debated many times but I would like to approach it from a slightly different angle. I came across a site in the USA dedicated to advising potential liveaboards and some of the comments quite surprised me. Those who were interviewed seemed to imply that the biggest mistake potential liveabords make is to buy a boat that is too big, because it undermines the fundamental appeal of a life afloat. For instance, one guy was adamant that anyone contemplating the liveaboard lifestyle should buy the smallest boat they think they can get away with and if necessary acquire some form of storage on dry land.
I know there is no right and wrong on this issue, but I'd be interested to hear whether members agree with this point of view and whether anyone admits to making such a mistake?
Click to expand...

I definitely don't class buying ours as a mistake, but to be honest we probably could have been just as comfortable with a 45 footer but no less. Unfortunately the type of yacht we wanted was only built in either 41/42ft, which we decided checking them out be too small for us to live on (2 of us + a GSD and room for friends and family). So we settled for the next one up which was the 50 footer. About now all the purists will be sucking air in through their front teeth and thinking all negative thoughts.

I suppose any drawbacks we have are probably marina fees which have not been a real problem as up until winter we spent 99.9% of our time at anchor. The only handling drawback is that the boat is quite numb astern but that's in keel design rather than the length and the bow thruster is the saving grace there and the two us can easily handle the boat. Nothing else I class as a negative with the boat, Being a liveaboard does not mean you have got to fit in the brackets that some think you should. We made our choice, paid our money and we are more than comfortable and happy with the size thank you very much...!

_____________________________________________________________________
 
This thread has reassured me that deciding to a 36' Bruce Roberts steel ketch to live aboard was not a mistake!

I've already started throwing away or selling on ebay, years of accumulated junk in readiness for a 'life afloat' in Argyll, come April.

Can't wait....

Ian

ps now where can I attach my Sky dish..
 
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