Boat sinks at Cala Viñas, Mallorca

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Can someone let me know if that would actually work as if it did what a way of overcoming the sinking problem!

Well I think in a potential sinking situation you try anything! If it delayed sinking by 5 mins it might make the difference between the rescue services getting a pump on board and the boat going under

 

[baylabayla3288]

I'm actually carrying a standard submersible 220 V pump with a pice of fire hose on board, just in case. As long as my genset works it could make the difference. This came to good use some years ago when a neighbouring boat developed a major leak. In my Ferretti the genset and the batteries are mounted quite high in the front of the er so it should work well even with a partly flooded engine room. Off cource a small petrol driven pump like this

http://www.biltema.se/sv/Fritid/Tradgard/Pump/Bensindriven-Vattenpump-GP-15-2000035529/

would work independently an could be part of the inventory. This has a nominal capacity of 14m3/hour

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

http://www.biltema.se/sv/Fritid/Tradgard/Pump/Bensindriven-Vattenpump-GP-15-2000035529/

would work independently an could be part of the inventory. This has a nominal capacity of 14m3/hour

Mmm, a typical large electric bilge pump might shift 5 m3/hr and a typical 50ft boat might have 3 or 4 of them on board so a 14 m3/hr pump isnt going to make a massive difference to the total pumping capacity but all the same might be a useful thing to have on board to help the electric bilge pumps cope

 

[baylabayla3288]

Mmm, a typical large electric bilge pump might shift 5 m3/hr and a typical 50ft boat might have 3 or 4 of them on board so a 14 m3/hr pump isnt going to make a massive difference

That is true, to fight against a massive leak it will not be enough. Then again, the boat's fixed pumps are typically divided between the different sections separated by bulkheads and so you would only have part of the pumping capacity available for eg. the engine room.

 

[Promarine11]

High water alarm float switch is cheap as chips and your early warning. Once ingress of water reaches the raised float proceed to engine room asap. Position fitted T section of raw water intake to bilge ( an also very easy installation std in many commercial vessels ). As sizeable diameter pump does its job sort the ingress. 52 Mobo 4M off Cyprus after the left shaft was torn off at 22 knots. Worked a treat enabled a tow in despite a sizeable breach. Cushions and pillows were very useful.

 

[MapisM]

Here is a picture of what it looks like on my current Ferretti.

I was aware of the internal pickup for emergency use as a bilge pump, but I didn't remember the two valves setup.
Makes me wonder why they didn't just fit one 3-ways valve, which would have allowed with a single lever the selection between:
1) normal usage with seacock open and bilge pickup closed, or
2) everything shut, or
3) emergency usage (reversing position 1)

 

[MapisM]

Cushions and pillows were very useful.

Darn, I guess that now we can't pull jfm leg for his stock of scattered cushions anymore...

 

[baylabayla3288]

I was aware of the internal pickup for emergency use as a bilge pump, but I didn't remember the two valves setup.
Makes me wonder why they didn't just fit one 3-ways valve, which would have allowed with a single lever the selection between:
1) normal usage with seacock open and bilge pickup closed, or
2) everything shut, or
3) emergency usage (reversing position 1)

In my Ferretti the intake valves have 2 positions as follows:

1) normal usage with seacock open and bilage suction closed
2) seacock close, emergency bilage suction open

this is wery simple and easy to remember and to instruct sombody in an emergency situation.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I was aware of the internal pickup for emergency use as a bilge pump, but I didn't remember the two valves setup.
Makes me wonder why they didn't just fit one 3-ways valve, which would have allowed with a single lever the selection between:
1) normal usage with seacock open and bilge pickup closed, or
2) everything shut, or
3) emergency usage (reversing position 1)

Yup fair question. In my F53 in fact the arrangement was like that with just one lever. The problem with the 2 lever arrangement that Ferretti have fitted to my 630 is that in theory it would be possible to flood the boat by leaving one of the pick up valves open or if that valve failed

 

[MapisM]

In my Ferretti the intake valves have 2 positions as follows:

1) normal usage with seacock open and bilage suction closed
2) seacock close, emergency bilage suction open

this is wery simple and easy to remember and to instruct sombody in an emergency situation.

I'm a bit surprised to hear that, because it implies that they fitted the very same 3 way valve that I was suggesting before, but with a movement mechanically "constrained" (so to speak - not sure if it's the right EN wording, but hopefully you see what I mean) to just two positions.

And while I accept that it's a bit simpler for the operator, there's a drawback: whenever you want to close the seacock, you must at the same time open the bilge pickup. Therefore, the sea water in the pipe and strainer is bound to drip in the bilge. No big deal of course, but easily avoidable.
Besides, the next time you'll open the seacock and turn on the engine, the impeller pump will run dry upon startup for a few seconds, till the pipe is filled again. Again, no big deal, but not very clever either.

Mind, if you are as lazy as I am, and you leave the seacock open at all times, this problem is only academic, of course!

 

[baylabayla3288]

Mind, if you are as lazy as I am, and you leave the seacock open at all times, this problem is only academic, of course! [/QUOTE]

copy that. One additional concern I have with this 2 position valve is what hapens if the valve if left between the two set position, does create a leak into the boat? I will make a test and get back. The users-manual states that the handle should never be left half way.

 

[aquatom]

The boat has been lifted now and it has been confirmed that there was a shaft seal failure.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

The boat has been lifted now and it has been confirmed that there was a shaft seal failure.

A shaft seal failure which caused both engines to cut out and the skipper didn't think to open the engine room hatch and find out why the engines had stopped, instead of which he dropped his anchor, launched his jetski and ferried his kids to the beach? Not only that but the high bilge water alarm must have been screaming at him well before the engines did stop

Do we know which type of shaft seal was fitted. I think I can guess

 

[vas]

A shaft seal failure which caused both engines to cut out and the skipper didn't think to open the engine room hatch and find out why the engines had stopped, instead of which he dropped his anchor, launched his jetski and ferried his kids to the beach? Not only that but the high bilge water alarm must have been screaming at him well before the engines did stop

Do we know which type of shaft seal was fitted. I think I can guess

mike,

I think it's a great assumption that the high bilge water alarm was actually doing anything!
I wonder how many check that (even annually!) and replace the floater switch (ever!)

(personally guilty as I've not yet connected the highwater alarm to the old analogue extremely noisy bells that are on both helms. It's on the updated shorter to do list, will be done in the winter!)

cheers

V.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I think it's a great assumption that the high bilge water alarm was actually doing anything!
I wonder how many check that (even annually!) and replace the floater switch (ever!)
.

Well actually I do! Its on my winter maintenance to do list and whenever I'm in my bilges and close to a pump I try to remember to lift the float switch to see whether it still works and the pump activates. Having said that it still doesn't guarantee that the pump will actually pump any water. You have put water in your bilges to test that

 

[Wandering Star]

It wont fit, that beach is roped off for swimmers (like all beaches in mallorca from april to october) with only a small passage down the side by the rocks for pedalos.

I don't think anyone responded to this and it concerns me! If the small beach is roped off for swimmers, surely in an emergency, a sinking boat could still be towed/pushed ashore despite regulations saying "NO"? People would see what was going on and the casualty wouldn't present a risk from turning props as the engines weren't functioning. I do think if I'd come across that boat, my instinct would have been to beach her one way or another. Am I a vandal?

 

[baylabayla3288]

Well actually I do! Its on my winter maintenance to do list and whenever I'm in my bilges and close to a pump I try to remember to lift the float switch to see whether it still works and the pump activates. Having said that it still doesn't guarantee that the pump will actually pump any water. You have put water in your bilges to test that

Same here, I test the alarm float whenever Im close to it (them). There are several, one per compartment. These high water switches sound the compressor horn and are mounted slightly higher. In addition there are warning lights on the electric panel lighting up when there is bilagepump activity.

It vould be really valuable to know the type of shaft seal they had. These sc face seals, like the Deep Sea Seal that failed for Deleted User once, can fail suddenly if the clip holding the rotating muff to the shaft fails. This can be trigged axial shaft movement when going strong astern. If the skipper does not know how the emergency clip works, let alone that there is one, a massive leak is a fact. As it looked like a charter boat, I doubt this is on the check list prior to handing over the keys.

 

[julians]

I don't think anyone responded to this and it concerns me! If the small beach is roped off for swimmers, surely in an emergency, a sinking boat could still be towed/pushed ashore despite regulations saying "NO"? People would see what was going on and the casualty wouldn't present a risk from turning props as the engines weren't functioning. I do think if I'd come across that boat, my instinct would have been to beach her one way or another. Am I a vandal?

You'd have to cut the ropes that fence off the swimming area first otherwise the boat you were using to tow/push the stricken boat in with would get caught up in the ropes. Then you'd have to ensure the swimmers cleared the area to give you room to manoeuvre properly/safely/without damaging the towing boat, which based on my experience of going ashore in small dinghy is not easy task.you wouldn't believe how many people just swim closely behind or in front of you when approaching shore, and there's usually a lot of people in the water at any given time. I think theyre just not too aware of the relative lack of control a boat has versus say a a car. I'm not saying you couldn't and shouldn't try to beach it, it's just not as straightforward a task as it would seem in mallorca,especially with a boat the size of the one in this thread, and a beach the size of cala vinas

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

It vould be really valuable to know the type of shaft seal they had. These sc face seals, like the Deep Sea Seal that failed for Deleted User once, can fail suddenly if the clip holding the rotating muff to the shaft fails.

This is exactly what happened with me although I must admit that I didn't realise it at the time. The rubber housing on the rotating shaft (or muff as you call it) is secured by friction only with 2 jubilee clips and that housing had slipped which allowed the faces of the seal to come apart and for water to flood into the boat

I have to admit also that when it happened I made a very stupid mistake which could have resulted in a much more serious situation. I tightened up the emergency clip on the other rubber housing attached to the sterntube but instead of shutting down that engine (as I found out later from the instruction manual I was supposed to do), I proceeded at maximum speed back to the marina on both engines. Fortunately the marina was only about 5nm away and we made it back to the hoist and was immediately lifted out. But my action of running the engine on which I had tightened the emergency shaft clip was completely the wrong thing to do and had the clip failed or worse, the rubber housing failed, it could have caused catastrophic flooding. IMHO the manufacturer should put a bloody great big notice next to the seal warning users to shut down that engine if the emergency clip is used

As for what caused the rubber housing on the shaft to slip it is very interesting to hear you mention that going astern could cause this. That day we had anchored in a bay (we were in Croatia) and I had swum to the shore to take 2 landlines to attach to rocks leaving my SWMBO to helm the boat and keep it steady. I distinctly remember hearing the boat go in and out of gear constantly with more than just idle rpm and when I got back to the boat I asked my SWMBO why she needed to do that and not just use the thrusters to keep the boat in position. I don't want to blame her (but I will) but maybe her actions caused the rubber housing to slip. It just goes to show that there is nothing that happens in boating which you cannot blame on your SWMBO

 

[Promarine11]

For sure reading the many posts and those whom have had to deal with a very stressful and confusing few minutes early warning and a definitive procedure is essential and all important. The working high water alarm, 'T' reversal bilging arrangement clearly labelled and serviceable valve handles and if your lucky enough engine room CCTV gives an incredible degree of confidence. In the med hoping in and out of these engine rooms with 50 degree plus temparatures is no fun whatsover. PPPPP comes to mind each time you hear of such an event. Easily preventable. Any one of these should be a lesson learned. It is all life and vessel safety useful info. I can assure you for the well trained skippers and instructors it is no less nerve racking.