Boat Registration

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My SSR cert expired about a month ago, so I went online and renewed it. This morning there was a polite email from Her Majesty's representative at the MCA asking for proof of my residence in the UK, which I don't have. This means that I must register Stingo under a new flag. The possibilities that I've so far found are the BVI or Gibraltar. In both cases, it is going to reduce my beer kitty by a little more than £2500-00 (about 20% of my annual cruising budget) with an annual renewal fee of £100.

What are the rest of you cruisers that have/had SSR doing if you can't prove residence of more than 185 days per year in the UK?

Thanks.
 
Glad that they are enforcing the rules - but sorry it is you suffering rather than those who really take advantage of the lack of formality.

The basis of residence in rather wider than just being in the UK for 185 days a year. If you look closely you will also find that if you are considered resident for tax purposes you can qualify. Many people are in that situation as they have to be resident somewhere even if they live most of the time outside the country.

The easiest alternative is Part 1 registration if you are a UK citizen, but that does mean a cost of the tonnage survey and meeting the documentary requirements.
 
stingo said:
My SSR cert expired about a month ago, so I went online and renewed it. This morning there was a polite email from Her Majesty's representative at the MCA asking for proof of my residence in the UK, which I don't have. This means that I must register Stingo under a new flag. The possibilities that I've so far found are the BVI or Gibraltar. In both cases, it is going to reduce my beer kitty by a little more than £2500-00 (about 20% of my annual cruising budget) with an annual renewal fee of £100.

What are the rest of you cruisers that have/had SSR doing if you can't prove residence of more than 185 days per year in the UK?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

PM sent ;)
 
stingo said:
My SSR cert expired about a month ago, so I went online and renewed it. This morning there was a polite email from Her Majesty's representative at the MCA asking for proof of my residence in the UK, which I don't have. This means that I must register Stingo under a new flag. The possibilities that I've so far found are the BVI or Gibraltar. In both cases, it is going to reduce my beer kitty by a little more than £2500-00 (about 20% of my annual cruising budget) with an annual renewal fee of £100.
What are the rest of you cruisers that have/had SSR doing if you can't prove residence of more than 185 days per year in the UK?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
As a long-term expatriate I used to use a flag of convenience - the Austrian Yacht Club route - which has since been closed to non-Austrian residents. This seemed applicable at the time as my wife, as part-owner, is Austrian. The only logical alternative is to go Part I, which is what I did and which has been made much easier since the change to only requiring five years proof of ownership. It's still expensive though, needing a tonnage survey by a recognised surveyor and a permanent UK representative.

The other possibility is Belgian registration, which some Italians are now using to avoid Mr Monti's new boat tax, applicable to any yacht on the compulsory Italian registry if 10m or more. It allows non-resident EU nationals to register without much problem.
 
In fact there has been a rash of boats with new SSR registration, here in Greek waters.
Mainly Greeks and Italians using the Red Ensign (frequently the union jack) as a flag of convenience to evade their countries' wealth tax on boats above a certain size.

It used to be quite commonplace, in S of France, to hail a powerboat wearing a red ensign and to find no English-speakers aboard.

Perhaps Stingo has been caught in an increased vigilance against such practices.
 
stingo said:
My SSR cert expired about a month ago, so I went online and renewed it. This morning there was a polite email from Her Majesty's representative at the MCA asking for proof of my residence in the UK, which I don't have. This means that I must register Stingo under a new flag. The possibilities that I've so far found are the BVI or Gibraltar. In both cases, it is going to reduce my beer kitty by a little more than £2500-00 (about 20% of my annual cruising budget) with an annual renewal fee of £100.

What are the rest of you cruisers that have/had SSR doing if you can't prove residence of more than 185 days per year in the UK?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Early next year we will be in a similar situation. What kind of proof of residency do they require ? We have a mailing address so wondering if that will do ?
 
Would it work if you bought a tiny tiny patch of land in the UK, and used that as your 'owner's address' or is that opening a can of international tax worms ? Or could you register the boat to a company in the UK ?
 
charles_reed said:
In fact there has been a rash of boats with new SSR registration, here in Greek waters.
Mainly Greeks and Italians using the Red Ensign (frequently the union jack) as a flag of convenience to evade their countries' wealth tax on boats above a certain size.
It used to be quite commonplace, in S of France, to hail a powerboat wearing a red ensign and to find no English-speakers aboard.
Perhaps Stingo has been caught in an increased vigilance against such practices.
Click to expand...
It has been known for many years that the SSR has been abused, not only by non-British, non-UK resident applicants but by expatriates with no residency qualifications. The Nelsonian eye was invoked because it was recognised that the Part III bill had been drafted hurriedly with no proper awareness of some of the ramifications for Brits working abroad on official postings or long-term cruising abroad folks. This was later corrected by the addition of the British tax-payment amendment but did not cover other classes of expatriates posted abroad. The opportunity to enable those was missed by not replacing the residency requirement to cover British subjects with the right of abode in the UK (an official designation), which would have been one solution.

However, it would appear that a blind eye continued to be exercised for the many who signed their Part III application forms without legally conforming to the requirements - until now, it seems. This may well be because of the ease that Part I can be obtained now that the previous, sometimes impossible, ownership paper-trail has been reduced to five years.

I suppose, to be honest, as someone who baulked at perjuring myself on an SSR application form (easy to have used a family member's address - and involved them in a deceit) and who had to jump through so many hoops to find another country of registration, I do admit to just a twinge of schadenfreude at this news. Wrong, I know, and I apologise ... :D
 
stingo said:
My SSR cert expired about a month ago, so I went online and renewed it. This morning there was a polite email from Her Majesty's representative at the MCA asking for proof of my residence in the UK, which I don't have. This means that I must register Stingo under a new flag. The possibilities that I've so far found are the BVI or Gibraltar. In both cases, it is going to reduce my beer kitty by a little more than £2500-00 (about 20% of my annual cruising budget) with an annual renewal fee of £100.

What are the rest of you cruisers that have/had SSR doing if you can't prove residence of more than 185 days per year in the UK?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

A quick google suggests a South African registration would be more appropriate?
 
I seem to have lost the plot a bit here. Part one registration covers all of the requirements and is not difficult (apart from having to pay for the survey) which, when compared with the potential grief of going onto a non EU registry and raising the interest of most countries officials. In the overall scheme of things it is not a very major cruising cost? I know the amount of attention my south african, australian and new zealand friends have, simply because of the flag compared with ourselves.

We have always been part one registered, mainly because I like to exercise my right to fly cruising association blue ensign, although I admit I often fly a red ensign in more out of the way places to make it clear that we are British registered.

I
 
SailorBill said:
A quick google suggests a South African registration would be more appropriate?
Click to expand...
Can only do that if I take Stingo back to South Africa so that the local official can do an inspection. Fat chance!
Further to that, South African flagged boats usually attract unnecessary red tape in many places eg in US territorial waters, SA boats cannot get a cruising permit and have to go through check-in/out procedure every time they change regions.
 
stingo said:
Can only do that if I take Stingo back to South Africa so that the local official can do an inspection. Fat chance!
Further to that, South African flagged boats usually attract unnecessary red tape in many places eg in US territorial waters, SA boats cannot get a cruising permit and have to go through check-in/out procedure every time they change regions.
Click to expand...

OK, understand, but that doesn't make it right that you are (or were) fraudulently using the SSR. Sorry to be blunt. Not sure what the answer is but wish you well.
 
SailorBill said:
OK, understand, but that doesn't make it right that you are (or were) fraudulently using the SSR. Sorry to be blunt. Not sure what the answer is but wish you well.
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I am a UK national, I use a UK bank for my banking needs, if I ever give up cruising I will return to the UK to live.

I am sure I am not the only UK national that is cruising long term on a SSR.
 
Registration in Delaware, USA seems to be a dodge widely employed by Israelis, Turks and others. No idea what it costs but worth looking at.

Googling 'Delaware boat registration' brought up this company Could be worth a phone call.

Ah, I found the catch. Coddan's fee for registration is £400 and you need to incorporate a company in the state first.
 
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vyv_cox said:
Registration in Delaware, USA seems to be a dodge widely employed by Israelis, Turks and others. No idea what it costs but worth looking at.
Click to expand...
A Slovenian I met on Ilovik, Croatia, told me he paid a Delaware company $100 per annum for his DL registration. However, that was before Slovenia joined the EU, who put a stop to them heavily taxing the purchasing of non-Slovenian boats (protectionism for Elan yachts). It could be more now, certainly more than the nominal administrative fee for Belgian registration.
 
Barnac1e said:
It could be more now, certainly more than the nominal administrative fee for Belgian registration.
Click to expand...


The fee may not be precisely "nominal", it depends on the age of the boat.
A new boat requires the one-off payment of 2478 euro (!), it drops yearly 10%, a 10 year old or older boat pays a fixed 61.50 euro.
This is only due at the first registration, IIRC there is only a 50 euro fee for the 5-yearly renewal of the "lettre de pavillon".

r
 
Roberto said:
The fee may not be precisely "nominal", it depends on the age of the boat.
A new boat requires the one-off payment of 2478 euro (!), it drops yearly 10%, a 10 year old or older boat pays a fixed 61.50 euro.
This is only due at the first registration, IIRC there is only a 50 euro fee for the 5-yearly renewal of the "lettre de pavillon".
Click to expand...
Whoops, that's a lot more than I had been led to believe. And a lot more than the MCA Part I, even with the tonnage survey.

Edit:
Okay, the example I am familiar with is a 1970s S&S 34 so not so painful.
 
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Barnac1e said:
Whoops, that's a lot more than I had been led to believe. And a lot more than the MCA Part I, even with the tonnage survey.
Click to expand...

Just for info for who has the boat abroad or foreign registered:
I enquired about registering Part1 my boat, based in France, currently under French Flag.
Tonnage and measurement + cat2 coding (based on one successful visit) about £2000.
Of course coding is not necessary for Part1 so the the fee for the simple tonnage should be somewhat less, bearing in mind that the surveyors travels expenses are fixed.

Then all translations of titles, property etc must be *notarised*, not simply sworn.
Then there are the MCA fees.

Finally the wood engraving :)


regards
 
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