Boat or Cottage? Advice please ;o)

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Yeti

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Hello All,

I’ve been skimming this forum for about a week now and as you all seem so friendly and willing to help I thought I’d address a few questions to you and see if you can help me…………..also maybe balance the responses I’m getting from the Marina sales guys….

I’m a family man with 2 young kids and a desire to enjoy some quality time for myself and my family. I’m also fortunate enough to have a lump sum available that I’d rather not use just to pay off a chunk of the mortgage.

I’ve looked at (and ruled out);
• Buying a 2-seater sports car (not family friendly and horrid depreciation)
• Learning to fly and buying a plane (not family friendly and scares the wife)
• Buying a Holiday cottage (great for the family but can’t afford anything I’d want to holiday in anywhere I’d want to holiday - also it's static so may get bored of same place over time)

So…..

What about buying a boat (a motor cruiser) that can be used as a ‘holiday cottage’ for weekends in the winter and a ‘caravan on the sea’ in the summer….

Sounds like a good idea, but a few questions immediately spring to mind….

What about appreciation/depreciation?
I’m not buying a sports car ‘cos if I spend £70k it’ll be worth less than £50k in only a few years. Buying a holiday cottage could be seen as an investment. Where do motor cruisers sit on this line…..? Do they appreciate, depreciate or simply stay the same value? Most marina guys suggest they hold their value if you look after them well.
Is that true, really, honestly? What does ‘looking after them well’ actually mean? How much will that cost me per year?
Several ads mention ‘being prepared for the season’ – what exactly does that entail?

How long/wide do they have to be so that we’d enjoy a rainy weekend on board without wanting to strangle the kids at the end of it?
I’ve seen a Fairline Turbo 36 which seemed about the right size but you wouldn’t want to go much smaller. Does anyone else (with 2 young kids) regularly weekend on something smaller? I’m guessing internal layout plays a big part in that.

In reality how far can you go in a long weekend / 1week / 2 weeks at a holiday pace (as in not trying to out run Dame Ellen !!)
Would my comments about a holiday cottage in Worthing always being in Worthing ring true about a boat in Brighton Marina ‘effectively’ always being in Brighton Marina?
How regularly would we be able to move the boat far enough away to consider it a new holiday/weekend destination? Would we be able to keep our main mooring at Brighton (for example)? Would we have to pay through the nose to temporarily berth the boat in South Wales in April & May? What about taking it to the Med? How long would that take? How do the mooring prices compare over there? Is it more economical to moor over there and fly out on EasyJet once a month?

Given the weather on the South Coast how often would we be able to ‘potter over to the IoW’?
Do you need to ‘use’ boats (like you need to ‘use’ cars) in order to maintain the engines and fittings etc?
Some information suggests it’s ‘best practice’ to bring them out of the water in winter. Is this true? What are the problems if you don’t? (I’m assuming you can’t stay on board if they are out of the water)

Phew…….

Quite a few questions there. Obviously I’m buying the magazines, reading the small ads and surfing the net to answer as much of this as possible myself but any real-life, hands-on advice from anyone on here would be very, very gratefully received.
Clearly, answer as much or as little as you feel able…(or bothered /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

Many Thanks,
David (and family)

P.S. Budget is about £60-70k (maybe more with a marine mortgage) and I live just outside Guildford so anywhere on the South Coast (possibly excluding Cornwall) would be OK for weekending….
 
Hi and welcome to the mad house..

I'll start off with the well known mantra..

If it FLIES, FLOATS OR FCUKS....rent it..

If you're buying with the expectation of cap appreciation... don't..... it won't
Running costs 10 - 15% of boat value per annum.

36' boat with kids and wife plenty big enough.. Turbo 36 good boat albeit rather old now.

Use it as often as you can..... or don't use it... the phantom wrecker will do its work and maintenance will be inevitable... remember the harsh environment your boat will be in.

Why Brighton? Much nicer places in the Solent with greater weekend cruising potential.

Buy the boat.. gowaan..gowaan... its a fantastic way to play with the family on weekends..
 
Yeti
For what it's worth...
A boat is not a good financial investment. It will eat up your time and money. It's an ongoing thing. You are unlikely to get your money back - let alone all the money you put into it.
HOWEVER money isn't the only kind of investment you are considering...
your children are only young for a very short time (for that matter so are you), a boat is going to give you and your family so many adventures, so much fun, so many memories, that you have to weigh that into the equation.
In addition there is the community of boaters - the people you'll meet - the friends you'll make. That kind of camaraderie just isn't going to happen at a holiday cottage.
Go for the boat – you might not end up with the same amount of money, but you’ll be much richer.
 
Hello yeti, (yeti say’s hello Albert)

To own a boat is the craziest decision that you could ever make, and I am here today to give you a telling off as it`s unfair to ask us to condone something that,
Takes up all your free time,
Takes up all your money to buy,
Takes up all your spare cash to run
Changes your well thought out priorities in it’s favor,
Changes your bank managers attitude,
Scares the crap out of you,
Turns you into a strutting megalomaniac,
Makes you grovel shamelessly to marina`s
Makes you worry when you lie in bed at home during storms,
Turns friends and family into crew,
Gives you one topic of conversation,
Gives you accommodation that is damp, cramped and noisy,
Allows you to slowly watch your house fall into disrepair,
Tries to murder you,
Steals your heart

……….
Buy it and enjoy.
 
Now this is all pro boaters talking but.

you enjoy a drink after a rough trip like you never did before.
you develop a sudden interest in cleaning materials and will discuss it for hours.
you navigate by cheapest marinas and pubs with good food,
or free beaches.
you start talking in a Little but ancient language call navigational, nautical vocabulary.

and we have not even started on the gadgets you "just have to have"


Its very very addictive.
 
Buy a cottage, enjoy it with the family...............for two years, sell it and buy a boat with the profits. We did, and now we're seeing the profit slowly ebb away, but hey! It's great!
 
Hi

Great question and sounds as though you are thinking along the right lines.

First, boating is ace for family life. Even ordinary stuff like making tea or tidy ing up or even cleaning the boat is fun, somehow. And it's cheap(ish) fun holidays. We did the aeroplane thing (wife got licence) you are right, far too much hassle and scary, stricitly for enthusiasts, not for family fun hols. Yep, the cottage idea is ok but as soon as they arrive, the kids will soon want to be off down some village or anywhere else, not in the old knackered cottage with nearby cowshit and boring walks. Quite different on a boat with dens etc. I have cheated a bit with our kids (now 16 and 13) by only having PS2 on the boat, not at home, hehe.

For the uk, the boat should be a bit hardtoppish - and turbo 36 is a definite possible. These are ageing now but there are lots of gooduns, and plenty of owners who tend to be knowledgeable rather than boyracerish and ignoring the maintenance. One of these might be um bout 90k? but will probly still be worth 90k in several years and seem fairly easy to sell - after about 10years since manufacture the prices are on the floor and even get "pulled up" by rising prices of new boats. You won't make much if any money, but shdn't lose much either.

In uk, the Place to Be is the solent - cos the sea is sheltered. Also lots to do around and about. in fact, from guildford i wd go as far as saying have a look at port solent which has stuff like portsmth etc for rainy times. Brighton is a bit full-on seaway with not many placeto go nearby - and not as nice for kids to wander around shops etc or fly a kite in the fields when it's REALLY windy.

Plenty of seagoing funjust oput and about in the solent - it's a bit of a drone to try (say) across the channel and back in a weekend, but quite doable - 3-4 hours each way and in a normalish boat like t36 you wd plan on doing about 20knots really. It wd have to be a bit of a hooly before you wouldn't go out in the solent - probly accompnaied by lots of rain. "avearge" uk weather is force 4 from the SW.

You do need a bit of trainng of courswe till you're happy. I had a skipperish type come on board for a couple of weeks and did courses on top, but many have less than this. There are plenty of instructor types around - plus others who can skipper and show you on an informal basis for an afternoon, say.

Yes, you do need to usem. Engine servicing is (say) a grand per engine per year but startuop costs in boating aren't insignificant with wet weathe gear and lifejackets and so on.

Holiday pace vising lots of places gives you west country, northern france, brittany - you can get to all of these places in a solid day of thundering along - but unlijkely you wd really want to do it again and again to get further, really, or at least, not unless burning diesel is the primary aim.

It is totally totally different in ther med, and i did some south coast uk stuff, then med. Med is easier, sunnier, but the boat is usally visited much more infrequently- you can't pop down for a day, really. And its more of a slog for a weekend - ripping kids from skool, off to gatwick and so on. Whereas with small kids especially, you decide if to go at the last minute in uk.

Yes, boats do like being out of the water from time to time , tho it is not really nec to keepem out for months and months. Marinas likem out cos then they can rent the space in the water AND the space in the carpark, but then i'm a cynic.

Have fun whatever you do. A 2nd hand boat needs a survey and one more thing - if you can buy from someone in the marina where you pan to keep the boat they can help you out if or when there are probs. An old hand at port solent (if you decide there) is Stuart mearns, good chap, who is usually at Gibbs Marine and he'll probly know loads of people who are selling to get a bigger boat or whatever.
 
Hi Yeti and welcome. Given the level of investment you are contemplating and the fact that you and your family have apprently not had much experience of boating, I would be inclined to be cautious to begin with. Usually the bigger the boat the less it gets used, so unless you can live close to your intended mooring and can confidently expect to use it on the odd evening and for at least a couple of hours each weekend it could prove to be a big white elephant. Boats are great fun if your family shares your passion but if not a very expensive cause of family grief. So why not play safe, buy the cottage as an investment AND a small second hand boat on a trailer and with an outboard and see how you get on?? That way you can always trade the house for a bigger boat later once you have a better idea of how you are going to use her
 
um, i've never heard of "the bigger the boat the less it gets used" - and in this case it wdn't be true: there's 4 of them, and (from his post) unless they can all go and stay he'll feel disinclined to go off on trips without rest of family.

It also has to be Quite Decent Inside, so they'll like to go instead of staying at home for weekends. In fact, i'd go as far as saying that in some respects it has to be BETTER than at home - else why would hangers on (kids etc) feel the need to go? For 4 people, this sort-of means the size of a Turbo 36, although i spose they might be a bit grandpaish here and there, but then the OP is from Guildford which is well known for genteel decay and hence all will be wonderful :-)
 
Hi Yeti!
How about chartering a boat from Brighton Marina for a couple of days I`m sure that somebody would hire you (a 40 footish aft cabin 8 berth) one. and take the kids and wife out for a spin. Check out the Macdonalds and Franki and Bennys burgers and spend time in the shops. you could also jump on the Volks railway and spend the day in Brighton. I have moored at most of the places on the south coast from Falmouth to Ramsgate and Brighton is the most vibrant.

Rob
 
My parents had 2 kids (me and sister).

We started with an 18 footer then went to 21' and used to do weekends, weeks and once a fortnight (although we began to go stir crazy at that) on them. I agree with the poster who said start small and see if you like it - if you do then trade up and if you bought right the first time you won't lose any money. 36' seems huge to me for a first boat and the running costs might scare the pants off you. Also if you have kids you'll probably want something to tow the odd water toy just to keep em amused.
 
Not my acronym, but here goes,

B O A T - Bung On Another Thousand.

Older boats tend to suffer less from depreciation, but unless they're really old (ie > 25yrs) then losing value is inevitable. Running costs for a planning mobo hull will be fairly large especially with the forthcoming derogation of red diesel.
 
Hi,

We have been down this road for several years. Firstly it was in relation to Windermere. Do we get a Cottage or a cruiser? The answer.....we got a caravan and a sports boat. Best of both worlds and a lot less cash.

Unfortunately static caravans are now as expensive as a small cruiser and the 'site (mooring) costs' are about the same. So we then got out of Caravans, looked at property, said "Big Commitment" and boat a cruiser. Only problem when all family needs to use it so we ended up with 3 cruisers. That is expensive.

We have now learnt our lesson and joined at a place (house) together. Admittedly it is in Spain and we miss the boats so we are now shipping a sailing cruiser out there. Of course we also miss a boat here so we are about to re-commission our sports cruiser here in the UK.

So what is the answer.......[--word removed--] only knows.

Boats drain your money but give a glow to your soul. My kids love them, my SWMBO loves them (as long as the G&T and Frascati flows) and I do the cooking. It is up to you. Buying a Boat is like selling your soul to the devil, you WILL love it but ohhh ahhh will it cost you.

Personally I say sod the sense, buy a boat and enjoy it; after all you only live once and why wait till you are retired to enjoy your money which you work very hard for!

What ever you decide you are always welcome on this forum, even if it is only to dream.....

Paul
 
"I`m sure that somebody would hire you (a 40 footish aft cabin 8 berth) one. and take the kids"

Surely you dont mean "just anybody" wold hire out their boat to a stranger?
 
If you are a hands on DIY type of person then looking after a boat need not cost a fortune, however if you are the sort of person that does not know one end of a screwdriver from another then its going to costs you loads!

Lets start off with depreciation, I have been boating more than fifteen years and had four boats in that time. I have never lost money on a boat! however having said that I am a keen DIY type of person and do all my own work on the boat. When I sell my boats they always look great and sell for more than I purchase them for after owning them 5 or more years. But I do not include running costs here, I am only talking about the cost of purchase and sale.

The time and energy it takes to own and keep a vessel is all consuming! I would go as far as to say that owning a boat is 10% enjoyment and 90% hard work! unless of course you enjoy the hard work! which many boat owners do! its not just all about using and cruising, its all about pottering about and maintenance as well.

I would buy a one/two bed property with your money and and then rent it out! Then you can take out a marine mortgage and buy a boat using the rent income to pay the marine mortgage! in this way you safeguard your main capital, it should in the long term increase in value unlike a boat and if you get fed up with boats you then have the option of selling the vessel, paying off the marine mortgage and doing some other hobby! but your main capital has been safely invested.

One last comment. The Turbo 36, is a great boat, and well worth considering. Brighton marina can be difficult to get in and out of in bad weather and you will always be out at sea, look for a marina that is on a river, but also has quick access to the sea! this way you can potter up or down the river when you only have a few hours to spare, but also have the ability to go to sea whenever you have long weekends or hoildays.

Good luck

Barry
PS. I live in Epsom, so I am not far from Guildford, email me if you want to ask more! barrywinnett@yahoo.com
 
Go on a course and get a qualification FIRST. It will give you some valuable experience and make you realise what your questions should be ! Then rent for a while until you know exactly what you want.

I didn't do any of that ....
 
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