Boat off mooring - salvage claimed

He should not be asking for anything, but I would expect to offer a 'drink' in such a case. I think this chap should consider making the salvor go through the entire process, going to his insurance, then arbitration on the size of the award, to make sure that the whole thing is dealt with absolutely fairly. It's either a drink, say, a case of wine, if any more then needs to be done by the book.

I pulled a £125k dive boat off the rocks, I just told the owners they owed me a drink as I missed the day's fishing, whatever they thought fit. They evidently asked other fishermen how much I had lost and made it up to that, which was very fair. I had some difficulty getting hold of it, if I hadn't it would have suffered many £ks damage and probably sunk.
 
A few years ago when crossing Lyme bay late in the evening we came across a large rib. We thought at first it belonged to some divers, but there was no-one on board. We circled it and found there was a mooring ball attached and on pulling this up it found the rope was frayed. We radioed Brixham Coastguard for guidance and took it in tow. When we attached the line we found the rib had RNLI stencilled on the front. It turned out that it was an inshore lifeboat that had come adrift. When we got it to Brixham a man from the RNLI came and collected it from the marina and said thanks very much. Considering the value of the rib and engine I thought the least we would get would be a letter of thanks, but nothing.
On mentioning this to a lawyer friend, he said "Why didn't you claim salvage?" I said well they're a charity and when they do tow people's boats in they never to my knowledge make any claim.
 
philwebb said:
when they do tow people's boats in they never to my knowledge make any claim.
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Interestingly, RNLI crews do (or would) have the legal right to claim salvage. The organisation makes them promise not to, when they sign up.

Apparently in the past this wasn't the case, and very occasionally a crew would make a salvage claim. If they did, the RNLI would then bill them for the use of the boat and fuel :)

Pete
 
In 1969 I was rescued by helicopter and the 14' dinghy, dismasted, was picked up by Selsey inshore RNLI lifeboat. They were going to claim salvage until they found out I was only 16, and Dad, always generous with tips & drinks, looked after them.
 
Ok what is the sanction if the OP cut the padlock and simply re-claimed the boat?

My guess is that the Police would be even less interested, any thoughts in this?
 
Seven Spades said:
Ok what is the sanction if the OP cut the padlock and simply re-claimed the boat?

My guess is that the Police would be even less interested, any thoughts in this?
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Probably true - but he would have risked starting an escalation with the guy that might have ended who-knows-where? "You cut my padlock, what a coincidence that someone cut all your halyards"? It was established that the salvor wasn't a particularly friendly person.

Maybe worth the risk if he was about to leave for good anyway, but not sensible when they will be remaining neighbours on the same river.

In the event, it seems they came to some sort of arrangement.

Pete
 
They may have but it is the principal of the thing. Cutting halyards is clearly criminal damage. But is any offence committed in retrieving a boat held for ransom, is their any sanction for doing so?
 
I personally would inform the chap he did a good deed to which you are thankful, but you are not Lord Rothschild, you can afford the amount offered (what ever you wish) other than that you will take back your property.
How he escalated it is up to him.
Ask your insurance company if they will still insure your boat under the 'safe keeping' of this chap or does all responsibility transfers to him whilst this situation pans out.
Or
As a close friend did when a similar situation happened to him, sent around a couple of his associates who made him an offer he couldn't refuse.
 
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>Coastguard says that he spoke to the Receiver of Wrecks who advised him that this was not a wreck and that salvage was not payable. It was Lost Property and should have been reported to the Police but some finders fee might be payable.

I've given things I found to the police, includiing a watch, and never been paid a finders fee. My inclination would be cut the padlock and take the boat, as it has been padlocked that could be seen as theft.
 
Very aware this is a zombie thread that someone should now close because the original debate is 2 years old. Anyways...

For information...

"(1)A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and “thief” and “steal” shall be construed accordingly.

(2)It is immaterial whether the appropriation is made with a view to gain, or is made for the thief’s own benefit."
(Legislation.gov.uk) (My bold and underlines obviously)

“Dishonestly” (1)A person’s appropriation of property belonging to another is not to be regarded as dishonest—

(a)if he appropriates the property in the belief that he has in law the right to deprive the other of it, on behalf of himself or of a third person; or

(b)if he appropriates the property in the belief that he would have the other’s consent if the other knew of the appropriation and the circumstances of it; or

(c)(except where the property came to him as trustee or personal representative) if he appropriates the property in the belief that the person to whom the property belongs cannot be discovered by taking reasonable steps.

I'd suggest anyone thinking this is 100% cast iron theft to read the sub-detail on this page carefully (with your defence lawyer head on, not your what is right and wrong head on). http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/crossheading/definition-of-theft

So while he may get his boat back, he will have a very reasonable defence that he believed that he was entitled to salvage rights and therefore had a right to deprive the other of it, he believed the owner would have consented to his salvage terms to protect the boat because they were not unreasonable and he believed there was no easy way to trace the owner. So he did not act dishonestly. Theft requires an act of dishonesty, and there wasn't one. He also could claim he didn't intend to permanently deprive the owner - he was willing to return it for a fee.

But your-honour, on the matter of criminal damage of my client's padlock, as my client has clearly not been unlawful in padlocking the boat, please can the boat owner explain what lawful excuse he had for cutting the padlock?

"A person who without lawful excuse destroys or damages any property belonging to another intending to destroy or damage any such property or being reckless as to whether any such property would be destroyed or damaged shall be guilty of an offence. "

The obvious solution to me would be to remove whatever the padlock was attached to, i.e. a part of the boat, which doesn't belong to another... padlock stays undamaged. No offence occurs.
 
Whilst on his summer holidays with us aboard our sailing boat in Greece my 8 year old grandson noticed a canoe / sea kayak type boat come adrift from a large super yacht nearby , there was. Again wind blowing and after watching its progress for a minute or two to see if the large super yacht had noticed we decided to get in the rib and wiz across the bay to the canoe , we secured to canoe with a line and began to go after the super yacht which still hadn't noticed , they were travelling at maybe 8 knots or so , we eventually came astern and it was then obvious to the crew we had there little boat in tow , expecting them to slow down and take possession would be the normal response I would have thought , not a bit of it , they let us follow them for maybe 300 yards without slowing down but just watching us from on high , strange response I thought and was about to release the canoe deciding they can't be bothered to slow down and I'm certainly not chasing them for another few hundred yards , at that moment the super yacht slowed to. A knot or two and a minion was sent to the bathing platform area to retrieve their canoe , passed line to crew , quick nod from him. , looked up and super yacht too high to see anyone else , at that point said superyacht opened throttles and sped away , value of superyacht perhaps 3 or 4 million . Left me wishing we hadn't bothered but of course I will do same again if I see something .I didn't want anything other than a thanks from the owner for my grandsons vigilance , sadly disappointed .
Iv just seen how old the thread is , need my glasses lol but I'm leaving this up as I'm sure it will be of interest to others who also didn't see how old thread was. -:)
 
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ShinyShoe said:
The obvious solution to me would be to remove whatever the padlock was attached to, i.e. a part of the boat, which doesn't belong to another... padlock stays undamaged. No offence occurs.
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Now that is genius! I learned a valuable lesson many years ago. We were landing fish where some chap in a hat thought we shouldn't, he came out all guns blazing. Crewmate whispered to me, indicating our ex-military skipper: "Look out, he's picked the wrong bloke here". Every one stopped, but skip just quietly said "Carry on " and we did as the hat man was studiously ignored. Short of pitching the fish off the quay there was little he could do. When I did the same years later to a yelling complainant my nephew said "ha, nothing so annoying as a bloke that won't argue".
 
MoodySabre said:
A friend of mine (who sometimes posts here) had his mooring fail last week. This waws a genuine failure. The boat is a 23ftr value £6000.

The boat ended up on the mud bank very near his mooring. Somebody had found it there and towed to a nearby mooring that he owns and has padlocked it to his mooring and left a note on the washboards "Do not enter. This vessel has been legally claimed for salvage by XX telephone xxxxxxx"

When spoken to XX said "you will have to deal with my son - he wants a new mountain bike"

Coastguard says that he spoke to the Receiver of Wrecks who advised him that this was not a wreck and that salvage was not payable. It was Lost Property and should have been reported to the Police but some finders fee might be payable. The insurers says they will pay a fee and that the finder needs to lodge a claim with them.

My friend wants to resolve this quickly so he can use the boat with his grandchildren in the holidays and he doesn't want huge aggravation with another mooring holder so hopes to agree a small fee as a thank you for doing him a favour.

If it is Lost Property and not reported to the Police and has been padlocked then is this theft? What do you think he should do?
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Recommend a bolt cutter for the padlock.
 
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