Boat leak ..it is sea water... advice needed.

[FairweatherDave]

Boat is a Westerly Konsort 1979 (so bilge keel grp hull). Yes there is some ingress around the keel bolts and that job is lined up. However the volume I removed this morning was 3 good buckets, so probably 25 litres, 30 hours or so since I last dried the bilges. And it is sea water not rain or condensation. In that 30 hours we gently sailed and motored 13 Nm and the weather has been calm.
So either the water is entering via the engine or the keel bolts or a skin fitting or stern gland. If it is via the engine I don't know where the leak is as the floor immediately underneath is dry, as is the area around the sea water intake. So it could be the stern gland (but it does look very dry under there). If the bilges are dry next time I go (without the engine having been run) then obviously I am getting a lot closer to finding the source.
But today I had all the boards up and the got the bilges very dry. However what I noticed was that the holes which link the various bilge compartments would then release more water. These holes are the ones that pass through the floor board "bearers" and are about 15-18mm in diameter. It was as if the bearers were loaded with water, which is perhaps not suprising if they have been underwater for a while. So I was poking very absorbent hand towel through these holes only to see a desert spoon of water collect nearby from the hole a couple of minutes later. The speed this water collected seemed to be what I would expect with 24 litres in 30 hours, ie roughly a litre an hour. So explanations on this welcome. I watched these holes trickle water out for about half an hour before I had to leave. If water has ended up stored in these bearers from a leak elsewhere that is probably good news although I am mystified where from. I saw no other water accumulating while the boards were up. And just to add I will not be leaving the boat too long without clearing the bilge. The point is I don't want to get the keels rebedded etc only to find I have not sorted the major leak.
Thanks for any advice.

 

[skipmac]

Hi Dave,

No solution but some hints and comments.

The holes you refer to are called limber holes. Are the bearers in your boat of wood or wood covered with GRP? I would be concerned if they are wood and so saturated that they leak that much water. Assume these floors are just attached to the inside of the hull and in no way through bolted to the outside? So where is the water coming from that you see in the floor bearers? Need to go "upstream" from there to trace it.

Regarding the stern gland. Should not be dry there unless you have one of the new dripless seals. You should see a drop every few seconds or so from the packing gland when powering. More you should tighten the packing gland. Less you might burn the prop shaft.

I would strongly suspect the keel bolts. I rented a boat once that had problem with the keel bolts. Sailing up wind the bilge filled in less than an hour. I turned down wind and the leak almost stopped.

 

[FairweatherDave]

A few more bits. It is a "Face seal stern gland", a PSS seal, so I believe should be dripless. You sort of burp it when you launch. Looks bone dry underneath.
Thanks for the bit on the bearers and "limber holes". The bearers look like they might be wood covered in fibreglass, or solid fibre glass. Not bolted to the outside, glassed. The thing is the amount of water coming out of these limber holes. I guess the voids inside the bearers could take a long time to drain?
I think it is reasonable to consider the keel bolts but the way the lockers are shaped around the keel bolts and the small amount of water over some of them makes me think it is not slopping over from there. But keep the advice coming. I really want to check I am not missing something obvious.

 

[simonfraser]

how long has this been going on for ?
seems odd that it 'just' started leaking this much
did ya hit a reef ???

 

[FairweatherDave]

Good question! As a bilge keeler I consider drying out one of the perks.....so I have not hit any reefs, but dried out this weekend and last, and gently touched bottom on the way up the Beaulieu river. Our swinging mooring also dries at low water springs so there could have been some bumps I suppose during the stronger wind days recently, but it is a sheltered ish mooring in the Emsworth channel. It is our first season with this boat and we only launched 1st May, and I knew the keel bolts would need doing then. Alternatively it is only this last weekend in particular that we have used the engine a lot, along with the preceeding wekend a little bit

 

[pcatterall]

Can you make a temporary plug in the limber holes that might isolate the area of leakage? Exhaust pipe conections, Anti syphon trap connections ( my last leak!)

 

[John 32i]

Dave, I would guess that it will be the exhaust - probably split...throwing water out and finding its way into the bilge!
took me ages to track down on ours!

 

[HenryEDM]

Put some food colouring in a container of water, disconnect your raw water inlet pipe (make sure seacock is closed) and put it in the container then run the engine. If you end up with coloured water in the bilge you can confirm the engine as a source. It seems suspicious that thos has started since you've been using the engine more. I assume you've checked the obvious hoses and water pump cover plate?

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

Does the engine have core plugs? If so, perhaps one of them has sprung a leak.
Another possibility is the shaft that turns the pump; there is usually a tell-tale drain that shows when a seal needs to be replaced.

 

[FairweatherDave]

Thanks. Yes I was thinking of using some kind of corks to plug and do that. That could be on the next visit. But I would be very interested if anyone else has had their limber holes leak from inside the bearers as I have tried to describe?
I guess it is a case of next time will look further upstream from the limber holes and run the engine to check those potential sources, providing the bilges are reasonably dry to start with.

 

[FairweatherDave]

Thanks for the further ideas. As I say it seems bone dry under the engine but from the further posts maybe it has just drained well from under there....
Since no one has contradicted me yet I will assume the mystery water running out of the limber holes from within the bearers must just be water that has crept up inside the bearers. Engine solutions would be less worrying as you can control how often you use the engine. If the water is coming in via the keel join then I will have to bring that job forward.

 

[FairweatherDave]

Put some food colouring in a container of water, disconnect your raw water inlet pipe (make sure seacock is closed) and put it in the container then run the engine. If you end up with coloured water in the bilge you can confirm the engine as a source. It seems suspicious that thos has started since you've been using the engine more. I assume you've checked the obvious hoses and water pump cover plate?

Like that test. Makes complete sense. To be honest I haven't had the chance to study the engine in action properly.... today was the first brief chance and I was more drawn to blotting up the bilges and measuring the amount, so never ran the engine. I was already late home so the kids had to get their own breakfasts......

BTW the engine is a 25hp Beta.

 

[FairweatherDave]

PS Tell you what, I feel better for getting this problem shared. Cheers Chaps!

 

[skipmac]

PS Tell you what, I feel better for getting this problem shared. Cheers Chaps!

And several good ideas to try. Do let us know if, no when, you find the problem.

 

[Bobc]

When does it leak? When parked, when sailing, when motoring, or all 3?

If it's when parked, then suspect a skin fitting. If sailing, then suspect keel bolts. If motoring then suspect engine water (raw water system) or propshaft seal.

 

[andyo]

Dave - have you taken all the cabin sole boards up, including the one that runs forward under the table (need to remove the table, I suspect if interior is like our Konsort - circa 1984, twin keel.) We had a curious problem after engine re-fit, loads of water in the bilge by companionway/heads/nav table. We cleared this away, but kept getting slow leaking through the limber holes. I eventually removed the table and lifted the cabin sole there and found gallons of water in that bilge which was slowly leaking aft. Cleared that out and all was OK.

How about the heads area - there is another bilge there with a separate sole board. Maybe one of the seacocks under the port berth is leaking and that is slowly making its way aft ...

Don't know about bearers leaking like you desribe - I'd have thought if they were that wet they would be structurally unsound. I think they are wood glassed over.

Good luck

Andy

 

[FairweatherDave]

Hi Andy
Yes, got all the boards up including the one under the table. Even extracted the one under the Nav table before we launched and found a good collection of pens (plus a small puddle). Over the winter I was focussed on sorting the leaky roof around the companionway/sliding hatch/coaming as the boat was stern to the south west. I have checked the heads area and all the sea cocks.
Bobc
Points taken. Can't answer you yet as haven't had the chance to find out. But I will update. But if I'm sailing I won't be going below getting the boards up in a hurry, I'll be enjoying the sailing not making myself seasick.

 

[andyo]

Another thought - the log and depth sounder between V-berths. Perhaps a leak from there?

 

[alan]

Dave,
It takes ages to get all the water out of the bearers via the limber holes!! It is surprising how much water can "hide" away inside, if like my boat the limber holes are a few millimetres above the hull. I ended up using my oil change pump with a small plastic tube to get inside the bearers as far as I could. Even then every time the boat was not level (even walking on-board from one side) then a few more drops would come out. I think it is unlikely that you have a leak in the hull inside a bearer(s). I ended up shaving back some corks [of course I had to empty the wine bottles first!! ] in order to block up the limber holes in order to try and isolate each "bilge section" in order to identify where there was still liquid hiding. In my case I had about 5 litres of diesel sloshing about in the bilges after a banjo joint worked loose at the fuel filter. It was a real PITA to get it all out of the bearers!!

Good luck.

Alan.

 

[VicS]

Boat is a Westerly Konsort 1979 (so bilge keel grp hull). Yes there is some ingress around the keel bolts and that job is lined up. However the volume I removed this morning was 3 good buckets, so probably 25 litres, 30 hours or so since I last dried the bilges. And it is sea water not rain or condensation.

You seem certain that it is sea water. Are you sure its not fresh water contaminated with seawater or have you tested a sample in the laboratory and found it to be 100% sea water ?

Just wondering if it could be water from your fresh water system. Leaks from pipe work, vent, tank inspection cover etc. You presumably filled the tank when you launched.