Boat in build pics (2013 Fairline Squadron 78)

So we seem to arrived at the solution ( nice problem to have - judging by uk summer weather ) of trying to kip while at anchor if the out side temp has dropped to say ... 28 C at 3am , no breeze - from 35 C during the Med summer day ,of devising a remote Geny start + Aircon controls from the bed ( master cabin )coz we are basically too lazy to get out of bed ? .This is because the inside of the boat has " heat soaked " up since turning in .
Pink Eelephant in the corner is surely run the Geny all PM , allow me to qualify this ---- perhaps a calculated ( Re - A/C + fridge? ) smaller " night " Geny .
The devil re vibration / noise intrusion I would have thought is the installation / soundproofing - and / or site .
Thinking outside the box - no pun intended - if the "kippers " on a a say 78 ft er are below decks why not have a small " night " - Geny mounted on the fly bridge - 2 decks above - all fitted concealed inc soundproofing
Punters can now bask/ sleep in quite air con beds?
Or this this a customisation too far ??
 
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Portofino said:
Thinking outside the box - no pun intended - if the "kippers " on a a say 78 ft er are below decks why not have a small " night " - Geny mounted on the fly bridge - 2 decks above - all fitted concealed inc soundproofing
Punters cab now bask/ sleep in quite air con beds?
Or this this a customisation too far ??
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I'd have thought so :D

mind, everyone is aiming at zero energy homes, thick insulation, minimal losses, heat exchangers you name it, and there we have million quid worth of industry not giving a damn on energy consumption/conservation whatever you want to call it.

Passive is the way to go, together with natural ventilation.
Use diesel for battery charging/fridges/stereo/watermaker ;)

V.
 
"Passive is the way to go, together with natural ventilation."
Vas
Agree
In an ideal World ' but it's not
Extrapolating ---- eh rag n stick then ? +! solar/ wind Geny ?

An extra 1 mm of forward throttle movement @ a pair C 32,s for 1 more hour will consume more diesel than a little night Geny .
MoBo,s small and especially large Re green credentials. --- hmn, let's not go there !

"mind, everyone is aiming at zero energy homes, thick insulation, minimal losses, heat exchangers you name it, and there we have million quid worth of industry not giving a damn on energy consumption/conservation whatever you want to call it."
That's cos the punter / public are forced to pay the energy bill they have no choice .Also various governments have capitalised on this green ,Eco, carbon footprint - call it what you will to raise tax ,

MoBo s are elective ,you have bought it -( nobody even a government or utility Co have held a knife to your throat )
We have had several ice ages without burning fossil fuel .
 
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jfm said:
Scubaman, yup you are right and maybe this needs more thought. Rafiki, I assumed Vas's reflective material would be hidden below the decks and above the ceiling liners, not on show. But I might be worng on that. It would be better if on show on the deck, but will work to a degree if stuck below the deck. Same with paint. The insul wouldn't get waterlogged if it was closed cell foam
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JFM, I'm struggling with the logic of reflective below decks. What is it going to reflect. It will be conducting if below the surface, which insulation will help, but not reflective material? Or what I have missed?
 
Portofino,

fully agree, discussion is slightly academic.
I'd consider NOISE from all that machinery as being the greatest nuisance imho. Hence the need to find passive systems to support a habitable environment under the Med sun. Mind you, day before yesterday, Mitos lower helm was up to 32C (ambient was 22C) under a 190g/m2 white turpalin (sp?) THAT is the problem ;)
I cannot use the aircon on the hard :(

cheers

V.
 
rafiki_ said:
JFM, I'm struggling with the logic of reflective below decks. What is it going to reflect. It will be conducting if below the surface, which insulation will help, but not reflective material? Or what I have missed?
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raf, it will be simply reflecting the heat radiation. You are right in that there's going to be some conduct heat transfer, but the insulation under the reflective film will do it's part.

V.
 
Ok, got that. What about the windows? Do you use IRR windows on M2? Anyway, with a high ambient, however good the insulation may be, you will still need to cool the interior. A quiet gennie is required.
 
Deleted User said:
And I get to put it on my side of the bed unlike the A/C control which is on SWMBO's side
Click to expand...

You sure you've thought this through? So SWMBO's wakes up because she's too hot and tries to turn the a/c on then realises she can't because the gennie isn't running - at which point the elbow is applied firmly to ribs of whoever's in between her and the gennie remote control (one assumes that would be you given that it's your boat).

Alternatively you wake up 'cos you're too hot and proceed to smugly switch the gennie on, only to find SWMBO's turned the temp on the a/c control way up at which you have a decision to make as to whether it's better to risk waking her by getting in and out of bed or deliberately wake her to tell her to turn the a/c down (not a decision I'd ever want to make with my SWMBO certainly...)
 
But if the main reason for not running the a/c at night is purely because of the noise it makes, surely it'd make more sense to solve the noise problem or am I missing something here?

Worst case is pop a genny in the dinghy and stream it behind the boat and have a long cable plugged into the boat? Of course other boats morred in the same achorage may get a bit pi888ed off of your dinghy with noisey genny bouncing off them but hey ho tough on them eh? :D
 
coliholic said:
But if the main reason for not running the a/c at night is purely because of the noise it makes, surely it'd make more sense to solve the noise problem or am I missing something here?

Worst case is pop a genny in the dinghy and stream it behind the boat and have a long cable plugged into the boat? Of course other boats morred in the same achorage may get a bit pi888ed off of your dinghy with noisey genny bouncing off them but hey ho tough on them eh? :D
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Outstanding idea, C. So simple and yet so effective. ;)

Also it would mean you wouldn't have to worry about any Onan style "silent-run" nonsense. Just get a little Honda unit with a pull-start from Wickes and the job's a good 'un
 
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rafiki_ said:
Do you really think the majority of boat buyers would look into this level of information? You 2 guys might, but I'm not convinced that the majority of buyers would be able to make a sensible judgement about what is right/wrong, better/worse. I think people buy more on specification, value, style and personal choice. I dont think anyone selects an Audi A8 over a Bimmer 7 series because the Audi has a alu body. I also don't think anyone would select an Audi over a Jag XJ because the one is bonded, and the other rivetted, despite them both being aluminium.
As an Engineer, I would be very interested in hearing about different build processes, and the reasons behind them, but not sure it would really sway my choice, unless I felt one build process was a disaster waiting to happen, but this is more likely to be reflected in the residual value, which I wuld definitely be interested in before a purchase.
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FWIW, I have owned 2 x A8s and I nearly didn't buy them because they had aluminium body panels as the repair cost is potentially higher than steel so yes, I think there is interest from buyers, or there should be interest, in the build process of manufactured goods. In the case of boats, I would certainly like to know whether a hull is cored or not, especially below the waterline, and what it is cored with and I think many buyers would think the same if they were educated enough to appreciate the differences. I am somewhat surprised that the better builders don't make more of their quality build processes in their advertising because it certainly would be a way of differentiating themselves from their competition
 
benjenbav said:
Outstanding idea, C. So simple and yet so effective. ;)

Also it would mean you wouldn't have to worry about any Onan style "silent-run" nonsense. Just get a little Honda unit with a pull-start from Wickes and the job's a good 'un
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Jobs a good'un until a scuzz removes both tender and gennie from your mooring :( In any case, it would need to be quite a tender to carry 20kVA gennie! Not sure Wickes do one of these?
 
rafiki_ said:
Jobs a good'un until a scuzz removes both tender and gennie from your mooring :( In any case, it would need to be quite a tender to carry 20kVA gennie! Not sure Wickes do one of these?
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Ah but for the likes of jfm he can have his skipper stand guard over the dinghy all night. ;) In fact put the skipper IN the dinghy and that way he can make sure it doesn't cause inconveninece to other anchorees (is there such a word? If not there shoudl be:cool:). Taking it a step further, why waste an expensive skipper on guard duties when there's all these new Romanians and Bulgarians coming in to the EU. We're solving so many problmes here we should be up for a government grant.:rolleyes:
 
Some of the design issues in relation to propulsion and power generation (noise, weight, reliability, single fuel policy, ease of control and availability) which have been raised in recent posts are being addressed by Bladon Jets.

This UK, Coventry-based, company is at the forefront of micro-turbines in the UK, with plants from 5 to 100 KW. A principal use is foreseen in the car/truck industry with hybrid drive trains. The technology is several steps forward from the Rover Gas turbine of a generation ago, and shows such promise that Bladon are in receipt of serious industrial funding from Tata Steel, and Jaguar Cars, as well as seeking Enterprise Investment Scheme (EIS) funds from venture and private capital.

Bladon is also receiving research support from the UK Regional Growth Fund (RGF).

The development of powertrains which are smaller and lighter than even the best of today's diesels, coupled with the ability to act as drivers for modern electrical generators, raises the possibility of hybrid power for use on boats, where the same unit could produce power for both electric propulsion and on-board power.

Their website is here:-

http://www.bladonjets.com/

Their 15KvA (12KW) turbine unit shows the benefits of this new breed of generator.

It has a small footprint the size of a domestic fridge/freezer; there is complete absence of vibration when operating, and it has whisper levels of sound when operating. The equivalent diesel generator would take up roughly four times the volume, weigh ten times as much, and produce a significant amount of both noise and vibration.
 
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jfm said:
Yup - if we could get even 15bhp from a non reciprocating engine that would be fantastic for overnighting.
Hmmm. I wonder how small a (diesel burning) gas turbine+gearbox+alternator you can buy...
Click to expand...

........ non-reciprocating engine ... how about a Wankel ??? somewheere between 3 & 16 HP .... and if they can run it on kerosine, then surely they can manage diesel ...

No association ... http://www.cubewano.com/
 
sarabande said:
Some of the design issues in relation to propulsion and power generation (noise, weight, reliability, single fuel policy, ease of control and availability) which have been raised in recent posts are being addressed by Bladon Jets.

This UK, Coventry-based, company is at the forefront of micro-turbines in the UK, with plants from 5 to 100 KW. A principal use is foreseen in the car/truck industry with hybrid drive trains. The technology is several steps forward from the Rover Gas turbine of a generation ago, and shows such promise that Bladon are in receipt of serious industrial funding from Tata Steel, and Jaguar Cars, as well as seeking Enterprise Investment Scheme (EIS) funds from venture and private capital.

Bladon is also receiving research support from the UK Regional Growth Fund (RGF).

The development of powertrains which are smaller and lighter than even the best of today's diesels, coupled with the ability to act as drivers for modern electrical generators, raises the possibility of hybrid power for use on boats, where the same unit could produce power for both electric propulsion and on-board power.

Their website is here:-

http://www.bladonjets.com/

Their 15KvA (12KW) turbine unit shows the benefits of this new breed of generator.

It has a small footprint the size of a domestic fridge/freezer; there is complete absence of vibration when operating, and it has whisper levels of sound when operating. The equivalent diesel generator would take up roughly four times the volume, weigh ten times as much, and produce a significant amount of both noise and vibration.
Click to expand...

Yep, Bladon were the proposed suppliers for the stillborn XC 75.

However, I still think a Fuel Cell is a better bet for weight, complexity and reliability. Too costly today, but maybe in 3 years or so time.......................?
 
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