Boat in build pics (2013 Fairline Squadron 78)

[Elessar]

Yup there has been no CAD modelling of light through the windows using those house CAD things, largely becuase it is arguably pointless on a moving "house" as MapisM says. I think it was just a no brainer that 6 windows in that cabin are better than 4, and anyway the only choices were 4 or 6 whereas a computer might tell you you need 5.2

The rest is all CADed. All the furniture mods, etc. I have zillions of CAD renderings of mods and ideas on the boat. For example below is an early mast (we are not using the NUC lights in that position; obscured by radar!) showing the 4x gps mushrooms inside the dummy dome to reduce mast clutter. And below that CAD rendering of a staircase. There are many more like these two

RAM too - a requirement at your size or just might as well with that mast etc.? NUC the only requirement for me.

 

[Cardo]

Jfm, i asked about running multiple gps mushrooms, but was advised against, but they could not give me a reason. DGPS i know is different, im just on about the stock garmin setup, my thought was a level of redundancy. (And four together is not enough spereation for DGPS,)

Any thoughts and reasoning, (hopefully it means I can fit a second mushroom)

Regards
Rob

On my wee boat I have two GPS sources. My Raymarine plotter has a built-in GPS receiver and I have an independent GPS receiver hooked up to the plotter via NMEA. The plotter can automatically pick which GPS source to use or you can tell it which you prefer it uses. If one fails, then it automatically jumps onto the other. This is the same for depth, speed, wind, etc...

I think you only get issues when you have a number of NMEA0183 GPS sources all coming down the same input. The plotter then can't differentiate between the different sources and can cause the boat to jump around due to slight differences in the positions from the different mushrooms.

 

[jfm]

The 4 GPS mushrooms are:

1. Main mushroom for N2K network.
2. Back up for above. Both main and backup are connected to network all the time and you select via the screen which one the network should listen to and which one it should ignore. This is a feature of N2K networks (Garmin, at least) that you don't get with N0183
3. Dedicated GPS for AIS transponder. I have no idea why they need dedicated, but they do
4. Dedicated GPS for stabilser computer

They are fitting the new Garmin 10Hz refresh rate mushrooms. Up till now mushrooms have been 1Hz for many years. The 10Hz gives smooth scrolling of the graphics I guess, but I can't see any other huge advantages

 

[Piers]

The 4 GPS mushrooms are:

1. Main mushroom for N2K network.
2. Back up for above. Both main and backup are connected to network all the time and you select via the screen which one the network should listen to and which one it should ignore. This is a feature of N2K networks (Garmin, at least) that you don't get with N0183
3. Dedicated GPS for AIS transponder. I have no idea why they need dedicated, but they do
4. Dedicated GPS for stabilser computer

They are fitting the new Garmin 10Hz refresh rate mushrooms. Up till now mushrooms have been 1Hz for many years. The 10Hz gives smooth scrolling of the graphics I guess, but I can't see any other huge advantages

Do you have a sat compass? I'm using a Furuno ST50 which provides a boat heading (not COG) refresh rate of 40Hz - really smooth and necessary for MARPA/ARPA.

 

[Whopper]

I take it that the dedicated mushroom for the stabilsers computer is to provide provide it with speed info for the relevant algo? If this is the case, and I know the difference is marginal in your location but would speed through water not be more important than speed over land.

 

[benjenbav]

Yup there has been no CAD modelling of light through the windows using those house CAD things, largely becuase it is arguably pointless on a moving "house" as MapisM says. I think it was just a no brainer that 6 windows in that cabin are better than 4, and anyway the only choices were 4 or 6 whereas a computer might tell you you need 5.2

The rest is all CADed. All the furniture mods, etc. I have zillions of CAD renderings of mods and ideas on the boat. For example below is an early mast (we are not using the NUC lights in that position; obscured by radar!) showing the 4x gps mushrooms inside the dummy dome to reduce mast clutter. And below that CAD rendering of a staircase. There are many more like these two

If anything were required to prove that boating is a glass half-full experience it is the configuration of the lights on these masts:

NUC: Yup, there's a switch for that.

RAM: Check - Another switch.

Aground? Hell, there'll be plenty of time to climb up and paint the glass of the middle light red while we're waiting. And someone's bound to have some nail varnish.



Only trouble is: which one to use? There's more colours than in fabrics.

I think "Ruthless" by Illamasqua is just about perfect.

 

[jfm]

I take it that the dedicated mushroom for the stabilsers computer is to provide provide it with speed info for the relevant algo? If this is the case, and I know the difference is marginal in your location but would speed through water not be more important than speed over land.

We had that discussion on the Match1 thread. STW is the correct measure for sure, and the stabiliser computer's NMEA-in will happily accept STW if that's what you want to give it. (It still needs a GPS mushroom for COG - see next para). But in the Med I prefer SOG from GPS, and mine is therefore set up that way. In the Med STW=SOG, but transducers that measure STW aren't as reliable as GPS. I know you can get expensive doppler stuff for STW, which is much better than paddlewheel transducers, but I can't be bothered with that in the Med and a GPS mushroom requires no hole in the hull

The stabs computer needs to know when you're going in reverse and doppler/paddlewheels are absolute values not vectors so they do not tell the computer (which knows the boat's HDG) whether the boat is moving forward or reverse. SOG+COG is a vector. Hence, if you send STW data to the stabs computer you also need to tell it COG so it can calculate that you're going backwards. Hence you need a mushroom. None of that is any big deal or any problem, and basically the same data processing is needed for both STW and SOG. I'm only mentioning it as general geeky background. The stabs computer could also get a "reverse" signal from the gearboxes I guess.

 

[jfm]

If anything were required to prove that boating is a glass half-full experience it is the configuration of the lights on these masts:

NUC: Yup, there's a switch for that.

RAM: Check - Another switch.

Aground? Hell, there'll be plenty of time to climb up and paint the glass of the middle light red while we're waiting. And someone's bound to have some nail varnish.



Only trouble is: which one to use? There's more colours than in fabrics.

I think "Ruthless" by Illamasqua is just about perfect.

Tee hee. Actually, and I'll very much sntad corrected here cos I'm working from creaky memory, isn't it true that the lights for aground do not correspond to the 3 black balls day shape? The aground lights are NUC (2 reds) plus anchor light, aren't they? Ie 2 reds and a white, not three reds. So the nail varnish wont be needed (and will be black and purple these days anyway)

 

[Piers]

Tee hee. Actually, and I'll very much sntad corrected here cos I'm working from creaky memory, isn't it true that the lights for aground do not correspond to the 3 black balls day shape? The aground lights are NUC (2 reds) plus anchor light, aren't they? Ie 2 reds and a white, not three reds. So the nail varnish wont be needed (and will be black and purple these days anyway)

I believe you'll find the following,

NUC - Red over Red. When making way, no steaming lights, and only sides and stern.

Aground - Red over Red. Plus normal anchor lts (except deck lights)

 

[mjf]

Tee hee. Actually, and I'll very much sntad corrected here cos I'm working from creaky memory, isn't it true that the lights for aground do not correspond to the 3 black balls day shape? The aground lights are NUC (2 reds) plus anchor light, aren't they? Ie 2 reds and a white, not three reds. So the nail varnish wont be needed (and will be black and purple these days anyway)

Yes two reds and anchor is aground - three reds is deep draft iirc

 

[sarabande]

Co-locating the GPS mushrooms.

In terms of resilience when looking at business continuity designs for IT installations, I tend to check that primary aerials and backups, mwave reflectors and radiators, are not installed next to one another. It's possible to posit damage to a single dome and its associated cabling conduit, this taking out all fixed GPS sources. Low risk; variable consequences, medium to high ?

Do you have spare handheld GPS on board or a plotter for the tender anyway ?

 

[Elessar]

If anything were required to prove that boating is a glass half-full experience it is the configuration of the lights on these masts:

NUC: Yup, there's a switch for that.

RAM: Check - Another switch.

Aground? Hell, there'll be plenty of time to climb up and paint the glass of the middle light red while we're waiting. And someone's bound to have some nail varnish.



Only trouble is: which one to use? There's more colours than in fabrics.

I think "Ruthless" by Illamasqua is just about perfect.

3 reds is CBD - anchor white over the 2 reds is aground - he can do that........

edit I see everyone already knows that, must learn how to read the new forum properly

 

[benjenbav]

Oh flip. Course I'm wrong as everyone has pointed out. Er, just checking?

Anyway if Match has a few additional guests who have been at the pies the nail varnish might still be required for the third red.

Aground = two reds + anchor lights, bjb you idiot.

 

[Whopper]

We had that discussion on the Match1 thread. STW is the correct measure for sure, and the stabiliser computer's NMEA-in will happily accept STW if that's what you want to give it. (It still needs a GPS mushroom for COG - see next para). But in the Med I prefer SOG from GPS, and mine is therefore set up that way. In the Med STW=SOG, but transducers that measure STW aren't as reliable as GPS. I know you can get expensive doppler stuff for STW, which is much better than paddlewheel transducers, but I can't be bothered with that in the Med and a GPS mushroom requires no hole in the hull

The stabs computer needs to know when you're going in reverse and doppler/paddlewheels are absolute values not vectors so they do not tell the computer (which knows the boat's HDG) whether the boat is moving forward or reverse. SOG+COG is a vector. Hence, if you send STW data to the stabs computer you also need to tell it COG so it can calculate that you're going backwards. Hence you need a mushroom. None of that is any big deal or any problem, and basically the same data processing is needed for both STW and SOG. I'm only mentioning it as general geeky background. The stabs computer could also get a "reverse" signal from the gearboxes I guess.

You are confirming what I had already thought! Its interesting all the same. In the world of competition ski/wakeboard boats paddle wheel vs GPS speed control can be an issue. A 1-2mph flow beneath a boat will result in quite a deviation in speed +/-5-10%. That is quite noticeable at the end of a rope!

 

[jfm]

Co-locating the GPS mushrooms.

In terms of resilience when looking at business continuity designs for IT installations, I tend to check that primary aerials and backups, mwave reflectors and radiators, are not installed next to one another. It's possible to posit damage to a single dome and its associated cabling conduit, this taking out all fixed GPS sources. Low risk; variable consequences, medium to high ?

Do you have spare handheld GPS on board or a plotter for the tender anyway ?

Point taken, but I'm happy with the risk. I reckon I have about 20 other GPS devices on the boat anyway. iPads, phones, blackberry, full plotter and nav network in the tender, handhelds, security trackers, quadcopters, the kettle probably, and so on. Plus, the Med is big lake. Just head north and you'll be fine. ALL the nav gear is just boys toys rather than mission critical (shhh though)

 

[Nick_H]

Plus, the Med is big lake. Just head north and you'll be fine. ALL the nav gear is just boys toys rather than mission critical (shhh though)

Yep, and deep water with few hazards. Navigation in the med normally involves pointing to where you're going.

 

[wakeup]

Nick, was it you that coined the phrase about med boating as "what you see is what you hit" ?

 

[pallalex]

I see you have thought long and hard about the failover of your systems, but do you have a backup network if the primary one fails?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Nick, was it you that coined the phrase about med boating as "what you see is what you hit" ?

I have certainly used that phrase in the past about the Med but actually its not strictly true. In the Adriatic, at least on the Croatian side, you have to have your wits about you because there are loads of sticky up bits that are best avoided and its dead easy to get disorientated and mistake one island for another. A plotter with a big screen and up to date software is essential

 

[jfm]

I see you have thought long and hard about the failover of your systems, but do you have a backup network if the primary one fails?

Nope, and tbh I don't think it's that feasible unless someone knows how. All components on the network are viewable with their IP addresses on the screens, and should report errors. Any failed item can be unplugged (the connections twixt spurs/drop cables and the network backbone are all labelled and are not in random places). I carry spare network componensts ie backbone wires and T pieces, and I have a back up 2x power supplies to the network. Also I have a backup GPS mushroom because that's in an exterior location (though protected by dummy sat dome) so perhaps more likely to fail for that reason. And I have an independent N2K network and charting on the tender, plus the usual HH/iPad/laptop backups with loaded charts ie not reliant on internet for charting. And a compass or two. I reckon that's enough!