Boat in build pics (2013 Fairline Squadron 78)

[jfm]

What's the special pipe called? I have some re-plumbing coming up on my new saily-boat, and I'm sure whatever Match 2 uses will be suitable for me. Find it mildly amusing to have one small thing in common, in fact

Pete

It's this stuff. Comes in several diameters. It's the business; much better than the smooth shiny white stuff

 

[jfm]

That seems like a very good modification. It's much much nicer to have all the poo as far away as possible.

The s/s run from the toilet seat to the bulkhead is probably very short but as the flooring and the bulkhead are separate structural elements (as far as I can tell), is there any possibility of even a minor movement between the two so that a rigid part connecting them could cause problems? Or is there some sort of dampening in the fittings?

There is a short bit of flex hose between the s/s pipe and the WC. The s/s part is only about 2m total where the piping passes through the e/room bulkhead and under the fuel tanks. The s/s is for fireproofing and generally good engineering reasons. It would also be very hard to change this section of pipe, so you want a 20 year life not a 5 year life material. The s/s pipe is thick wall.

Pic below shows the s/s pipe as it emerges into the e/room. A servicing shut-off valve will be fitted here. This pic is looking across the boat - cameraman is on starboard side looking across to port side. The engines go to the left, and the master cabin bathroom is to the right of the smooth white main bulkhead. The fuel tanks sit on the e/room side of the bulkhead on top of the GRP that is raw colour

 

[jfm]

It is interesting that while there are 90 odd Sq 78's out there, of which probably 50% are on the Med or other suitably warm place, why hasn't Fairline changed the std design? Or was the aroma issue in the Master cabin peculiar to M1?

The aroma issue isn't unique to Match1. Any cabin with 8metres of that white pipe and a poo tank under the floor will on occasions suffer aroma - all of us boaters know that. The bigger a boat gets generally, the longer the metre-age of poo pipe so the problem potentially gets worse on bigger boats. Every so often you need to flush the tank and system through, but we dont all get around to that as often as we should

Match1 wasn't terrible nor any worse than a normal boat, but that means occasionally you got a slight aroma. I'm being fussy and want to eliminate it 100%.

I can't answer the question about why Fairline don't change the design - it's up to them. I think my solution is better and cheaper to install though, becuase there is one fewer tank, pump, pump contoller, level gauge and seacock. That feels to me like a saving, though only £1000 or so in 2.5mill of boat

Remember though i have cut my freshwater from 1000litre to 800. I'm happy with that becuase I have a massive w/maker but maybe not every s78 buyer would be happy; I dunno. Actually in my original design i drew a 200 litre fresh water tank under the master cabin floor where the black tank used to be, and a transfer pump, and that would restore the fresh water to 1000 litres. But in the end I didn't want this fitted becuase I prefer the underfloor stoarge that I now have under master cabin for suitcases and stuff, and I'm happy with 800 litres of water due to the 280 l/hour w/maker at the flick of a switch

 

[rafiki_]

The aroma issue isn't unique to Match1. Any cabin with 8metres of that white pipe and a poo tank under the floor will on occasions suffer aroma - all of us boaters know that. The bigger a boat gets generally, the longer the metre-age of poo pipe so the problem potentially gets worse on bigger boats. Every so often you need to flush the tank and system through, but we dont all get around to that as often as we should

Match1 wasn't terrible nor any worse than a normal boat, but that means occasionally you got a slight aroma. I'm being fussy and want to eliminate it 100%.

I can't answer the question about why Fairline don't change the design - it's up to them. I think my solution is better and cheaper to install though, becuase there is one fewer tank, pump, pump contoller, level gauge and seacock. That feels to me like a saving, though only £1000 or so in 2.5mill of boat

Remember though i have cut my freshwater from 1000litre to 800. I'm happy with that becuase I have a massive w/maker but maybe not every s78 buyer would be happy; I dunno. Actually in my original design i drew a 200 litre fresh water tank under the master cabin floor where the black tank used to be, and a transfer pump, and that would restore the fresh water to 1000 litres. But in the end I didn't want this fitted becuase I prefer the underfloor stoarge that I now have under master cabin for suitcases and stuff, and I'm happy with 800 litres of water due to the 280 l/hour w/maker at the flick of a switch

Thanks JFM, and I know that you are appropriately discerning with all things boaty. I'm interested from the "Why would you put up with this on a new boat perspective, let alone £2.5 mil worth!" If I were a purchaser of any new boat, and I got the odd waft of yesterdays trash, I would be onto the supplier for a fix, and that fix would not be deoderiser!

 

[jfm]

Thanks JFM, and I know that you are appropriately discerning with all things boaty. I'm interested from the "Why would you put up with this on a new boat perspective, let alone £2.5 mil worth!" If I were a purchaser of any new boat, and I got the odd waft of yesterdays trash, I would be onto the supplier for a fix, and that fix would not be deoderiser!

But seriously, what would you expect the supplier to do? They cannot just invent fixes. If you install new loos, that white piping, a few fisher-pricy parts like the sealand T series pump that every builder uses (and that Headmistress praises, though lawd knows why; it's a toy), and stick it all in warm weather, you will occasionally get a slight aroma even if there is no fixable fault in the system. I am talking slight here, and occasional not constant, and worse in warm weather than cold, just to be clear

 

[rafiki_]

But seriously, what would you expect the supplier to do? They cannot just invent fixes. If you install new loos, that white piping, a few fisher-pricy parts like the sealand T series pump that every builder uses (and that Headmistress praises, though lawd knows why; it's a toy), and stick it all in warm weather, you will occasionally get a slight aroma even if there is no fixable fault in the system. I am talking slight here, and occasional not constant, and worse in warm weather than cold, just to be clear

If you have developed a fix, why couldn't Fairline?

 

[jfm]

Here are a few extra pics of the tender which i saw for the first time at the weekend

It came by container from florida to Felixstowe docks, and fromt here by truck to Essex Boatyards. EBY remain ever helpful and delightful to deal with - they are storing it, forklifiting it on demand, and doing some mods to the dash for me, no bother at all to them

This is just after unload, shrinkwrapped

Here it is set up

I was going to change the upholstery becuase it looked cream in the pics and does so in the pic above, but in the flesh it looks white enough I am going to change the dash though. Novurania have suppled an additional blank console moulding. The EBY team are going to change the shape a bit to create a panel where the Yam instruments can be mounted, horizontally just below the windscreen. There is already a panel there but it isn't tall enough for the yam gauges, so it will be extended, downwards rather than upwards. A plotter will go to the left of the wheel, and the wheel will be moved 25mm to starboard. The throttle lever will be moved closer to the helmsman, and the yuk switches will be tidied up with red-backlit silver painted carling actuators to match the mother ship switches. A fiddle thing to hold mobile phones and drinks will be made for the top just behind the windscreen, and Lumishore lights + VHF set will be fitted with dash control/handset. The whole console top will be sprayed in silver awlgrip to match the flybridge dash on the mother ship. I'll post pics as that is all done

The Novurania has the deepest V of any RIB of this size, afaik.

Overall buying in the US was much easier than i thought. The supplier packed it properly in its own container and sent me pics. I got a tracking number for the container, plus I had the ship name for AIS tracking. Within a few days of it landing in Felixstowe and paying the import VAT it arrived to the address I'd given. PSP shipping in southampton did all the import procedures and were fantastic and made it really easy for me. All in the shipping, based on my own whole container, was about £2,000 and the keen pricing of the boat bought off a USA price list with no european distributor taking a cut meant that overall it was an excellent deal. I'd definitely recommend this route and would do it again.

 

[benjenbav]

Great progress, both on mothership and tender.

Bit worried that you have underspecced the a/c, based on this picture of the installation on the forward bulkhead:

 

[rafiki_]

She looks a great toy as she stands, and the mods will be creamy (sorry whitey, but this doesn't work ).

I too am a great believer of buying stuff in the states.

When do you get to try her out?

 

[jfm]

If you have developed a fix, why couldn't Fairline?

My fix is wholesale level - changing the tanks and relocating them and the pipe runs. It has to be decided before the boat is laid up. In the scenario you postulated, where you bought a boat and got an aroma, you can't expect the supplier to do what has been done on Match 2. It's just not retro-doable. You could get the flex piping retro-swapped for the less smell-permeable stuff, but that's about all that can be done on a retrofit basis, imho

 

[jfm]

Bit worried that you have underspecced the a/c, based on this picture of the installation on the forward bulkhead

That's the airco and fumes management system for the entire Fairline factory BJB. Elf n safety yerknow

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I inherited a Novurania tender on my last Ferretti and it was an excellent little RIB, way better than the Arimar I've bought for my current boat so I think you've chosen well. But why did you buy from Florida; I thought Novurania was an Italian company?

 

[rafiki_]

My fix is wholesale level - changing the tanks and relocating them and the pipe runs. It has to be decided before the boat is laid up. In the scenario you postulated, where you bought a boat and got an aroma, you can't expect the supplier to do what has been done on Match 2. It's just not retro-doable. You could get the flex piping retro-swapped for the less smell-permeable stuff, but that's about all that can be done on a retrofit basis, imho

Sorry JFM, but too much time on my hands tonight, as I'm kicking my heels in an airport, but my point is why haven't they changed the design such that they eliminate this issue at root cause? I get your point about the fix in service, but they have been building the Sq 78 for 10 years FFS. Or are you the first with the calibrated nose, that hasn't blamed the odd waft on their companion?

 

[jfm]

I inherited a Novurania tender on my last Ferretti and it was an excellent little RIB, way better than the Arimar I've bought for my current boat so I think you've chosen well. But why did you buy from Florida; I thought Novurania was an Italian company?

Nope mike. It sounds Italian, but the company + factory are USA, Vero Beach near Miami. Zero linkage to italy. There's a similar souding RIB maker in Italy, who made the RIB on TCM's leopard iirc, but I can't remember the name. On the tip of my tongue... As you know a RIB company starts up and dies just about every week. Zero barriers to entry. Hard to keep up with them all.

Edit - Novamarine is the one I was trying to remember. They're italian, and tcm did have one on his leopard 23

 

[jfm]

Sorry JFM, but too much time on my hands tonight, as I'm kicking my heels in an airport, but my point is why haven't they changed the design such that they eliminate this issue at root cause? I get your point about the fix in service, but they have been building the Sq 78 for 10 years FFS. Or are you the first with the calibrated nose, that hasn't blamed the odd waft on their companion?

We're at crossed purposes. Forums eh? . You said if YOU bought a boat avec aroma, you'd demand a fix. I responded to that by saying you can't have just any fix becuase there are limits on what can be done after the boat is built.

Separately, as to why FL haven't adopted my design in sq78, I don't know. you'd have to ask them . Perhaps they haven't had many complaints and I'm being over sensitive! One possible relevant fact is I boat in hot climes but refuse to run airco/genset at night, and I spend a lot of nights on anchor. Marina dwellers and genset 24/7ers will have cooler boats than mine. Just guessing here; i dont really know. See also last 2 paras of my post 783 above. maybe in due course they will switch to my set up - it isn't tested in the field yet and i merely think it will be an improvement...

 

[rafiki_]

We're at crossed purposes. Forums eh? . You said if YOU bought a boat avec aroma, you'd demand a fix. I responded to that by saying you can't have just any fix becuase there are limits on what can be done after the boat is built.

Separately, as to why FL haven't adopted my design in sq78, I don't know. you'd have to ask them . Perhaps they haven't had many complaints and I'm being over sensitive! One possible relevant fact is I boat in hot climes but refuse to run airco/genset at night, and I spend a lot of nights on anchor. Marina dwellers and genset 24/7ers will have cooler boats than mine. Just guessing here; i dont really know. See also last 2 paras of my post 783 above. maybe in due course they will switch to my set up - it isn't tested in the field yet and i merely think it will be an improvement...

OK thanks, and agree on the fix, but I would still want the supplier to squirm a bit. I would be really surprised if your solution doesn't work, as you have removed the vast majority of the root cause. If you get a re-occurance on M2, then perhaps you should look at your companion with a Roger Moore raised eyebrow .

Overall, it just feels to me that F/L have been a bit lazy, but if they have sold out for this year, then they know a lot more than I do.

 

[prv]

It's this stuff. Comes in several diameters. It's the business; much better than the smooth shiny white stuff

Ta.

Pete

 

[DTIM]

Coming along nicely JFM. Tender looks great even before your mods. You have every right to be fussy ref black tanks, 8m of pipe and a tank of poo under your bed would not make for a comfortable sleep and any smell, let alone the remote possibility of a leak or burst could rather "kill the moment'

 

[MapisM]

Interesting stuff as usual, J.
Your black tanks re-design sounds very logical, I bet it'll work as you expect.
Though in principle I can understand the criticism from rafiki: on a boat of this level, a builder shouldn't wait a customer customization request to find a proper solution to such problem...
...and the fact that there's not a lot which can be done after the boat has been built is not something I'd want to hear either, after having spent that sort of money!

Re. the tender:

The throttle lever will be moved closer to the helmsman, and the yuk switches....

While you're customizing all that stuff, a fix for the wrong trim control placement on the throttle lever would probably be higher on my priorities than all the other stuff you mentioned.
The flush mount control lever on a center console is something most RIB builders use (to save a few quids), but as a consequence the trim control goes on the wrong side, because... Well, because flush levers are NOT meant to be placed on center consoles, ffs!
It takes a top mount binnacle control, to have a properly placed trim button.
Possibly not as nice from an aesthetic viewpoint, but particularly on a powerful and fast RIB as the TT M2, that's the way to go, imho.

As an aside, afaik Novurania was originally established as a division of a plastic industry based in northern Italy.
I'm not sure if they afterwards moved that business to the US, or just sold it, or whatever.
As you also said, it's easy to loose the plot on such sub-cottage of the general cottage industry which is boat building...!

 

[jfm]

Interesting stuff as usual, J.
Your black tanks re-design sounds very logical, I bet it'll work as you expect.
Though in principle I can understand the criticism from rafiki: on a boat of this level, a builder shouldn't wait a customer customization request to find a proper solution to such problem...
...and the fact that there's not a lot which can be done after the boat has been built is not something I'd want to hear either, after having spent that sort of money!

Re. the tender:

While you're customizing all that stuff, a fix for the wrong trim control placement on the throttle lever would probably be higher on my priorities than all the other stuff you mentioned.
The flush mount control lever on a center console is something most RIB builders use (to save a few quids), but as a consequence the trim control goes on the wrong side, because... Well, because flush levers are NOT meant to be placed on center consoles, ffs!
It takes a top mount binnacle control, to have a properly placed trim button.
Possibly not as nice from an aesthetic viewpoint, but particularly on a powerful and fast RIB as the TT M2, that's the way to go, imho.

As an aside, afaik Novurania was originally established as a division of a plastic industry based in northern Italy.
I'm not sure if they afterwards moved that business to the US, or just sold it, or whatever.
As you also said, it's easy to loose the plot on such sub-cottage of the general cottage industry which is boat building...!

Yup, agreed re black tanks

Mapis do you know of an easy solution to the trim button problem? It's amazing the engine builders don't offer a "left hand" and "right hand" version of their control boxes, as a $100 accessory, but as you know none of them do

I cannot sensibly fit a binnacle throttle lever on top of the dash in this case - the lever would be too high and would catch on lines etc. Does someone make a converter kit to move the trim button to the other side of the lever? I could get something made but it's hard to find time for that kind of thing and it would be nicer to buy it from a catalogue

Thanks for the history on Novurania and sub-cottagery )). I didn't know that