HammerMan
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Boat identification??
- Thread starter HammerMan
- Start date
Peterduck
Well-Known Member
That's a very interesting boat! The combination of the flat bottom, the leeboards and the bluff bow all speak of carrying a substantial burden, probably fish and nets, in shallow waters, possibly The Wash. It is the very antitheisis of Iain Oughtred's sleek designs. I would think that it was possibly built by an experienced fisherman as his idea of what a good fishing boat should be. It looks as though it would be fairly heavy, which will augur well for her stability, and also suggests a working origin rather than a recreational one. The expression "built more for comfort than for speed" comes to mind. It appears to be fairly sound ( I only saw one broken rib, which is good going). It is certainly too good to be broken up.
Peter.
Peter.
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
Not sure what she is, but is definitey worth saving, will look wonderful done up and painted properly.
One thing I do know, all those pulley blocks, are not from this boat, but worth a fair bit of money to those in the know, they are wooden "strop" blocks and I know a few gaffers who would love them.
I agree with the other post, she is definitely more working than pleasure!
One thing I do know, all those pulley blocks, are not from this boat, but worth a fair bit of money to those in the know, they are wooden "strop" blocks and I know a few gaffers who would love them.
I agree with the other post, she is definitely more working than pleasure!
DownWest
Well-Known Member
One thing, if you put it in the water, it will leak like a sieve before the wood takes up.
Their have been odd boats called Puffin, the sail might be from one of them. ( I have an Oughtred boat and yours is too old to one of his, esp as they are mostly glued ply)
Best rig would be a standing lug.
Andrew
Looking again, the thumb cleats along the sides to the rear would indicate it is a lug rig. Is the sail 4-sided or a triangle?
A
Their have been odd boats called Puffin, the sail might be from one of them. ( I have an Oughtred boat and yours is too old to one of his, esp as they are mostly glued ply)
Best rig would be a standing lug.
Andrew
Looking again, the thumb cleats along the sides to the rear would indicate it is a lug rig. Is the sail 4-sided or a triangle?
A
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
the metal bit on the front of the boat needs taking off, filling then putting back on (the stem
[/ QUOTE ] Don't think in terms of filling like on cars. It needs some wood replacing, and if it's the stem post it may become a slightly bigger job than at first sight.
Take a piccy of that as well so we can see the issue.
the metal bit on the front of the boat needs taking off, filling then putting back on (the stem
[/ QUOTE ] Don't think in terms of filling like on cars. It needs some wood replacing, and if it's the stem post it may become a slightly bigger job than at first sight.
Take a piccy of that as well so we can see the issue.
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
She is gonna need a fair amount of work, not as much as it first appears. Most of the work you can do yourself. A chippy will be needed to put a few small pieces of timber into her, then mainly elbow grease, as in sanding her all down and filling the scrapes in the planking and repainting. If there is anybody boaty or who knows about boats around you or if you live near some of this lot on here, I would get them to have a look at the boat, to see what goes where and what sails are from her and what are from other boats. For sure not all the stuff there belongs to this boat.
She will look lovely when all apinted up and looking nice, she is not ready to go anywhere near the water yet, that comes later.
She will look lovely when all apinted up and looking nice, she is not ready to go anywhere near the water yet, that comes later.
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
I'd be more adventurous. Lots of restorations get dropped because it's too much work and not enough fun.
Looking at the pics it could be a toss-up. Stripping the paint from the stem may give a better idea if it's just superficial or the wood itself. I'd be tempted to get the thing rigged (which will be a few hours of fun) and get it in the water. Once it's taken up you'll see if there are any more serious leaks. Unless you're wanting to set about a few months of stripping, joinery, etc. I'd be tempted to use it a bit and decide if it tugs at your heart-string so that a winter rebuild is called for. You aren't going to be putting to sea in it so I'd stay in sheltered waters or rivers and treat her like a frail old lady. If it does sink it'll be a bigger problem than that bit of cracking on the stem that causes it.
If you want to go ahead then you'll have the incentive whereas if you start now on restoring before having used it you may just go off the boil.
I'd also learn the skills needed (posh joinery) to do it yourself, it's only time involved, but that will cost you dearly if you pay someone. You'll need somewhere to get it dry and keep it dry to work on it.
Looking at the pics it could be a toss-up. Stripping the paint from the stem may give a better idea if it's just superficial or the wood itself. I'd be tempted to get the thing rigged (which will be a few hours of fun) and get it in the water. Once it's taken up you'll see if there are any more serious leaks. Unless you're wanting to set about a few months of stripping, joinery, etc. I'd be tempted to use it a bit and decide if it tugs at your heart-string so that a winter rebuild is called for. You aren't going to be putting to sea in it so I'd stay in sheltered waters or rivers and treat her like a frail old lady. If it does sink it'll be a bigger problem than that bit of cracking on the stem that causes it.
If you want to go ahead then you'll have the incentive whereas if you start now on restoring before having used it you may just go off the boil.
I'd also learn the skills needed (posh joinery) to do it yourself, it's only time involved, but that will cost you dearly if you pay someone. You'll need somewhere to get it dry and keep it dry to work on it.
DownWest
Well-Known Member
HM, the bag with Puffin Main Trysail on it may not belong to the boat. Trysails are usually small storm sails in heavy canvas, but for a larger boat than yours.
The wooden spar with the tapered ends might well be for the top of a lugsail and one of the others a boom (for the bottom)
A
The wooden spar with the tapered ends might well be for the top of a lugsail and one of the others a boom (for the bottom)
A
tillergirl
Well-Known Member
Looks to me like she had lee-boards once. Don't see them in your assembly of pieces. Mind you once of those 'rudder blades' might be one of them - the one without the metal reinforcement. Pivot on that pin coming through the hull just under the beam shelf and resting on that arched bracing.
What an enjoyable puzzle. Great fun and worth tackling.
What an enjoyable puzzle. Great fun and worth tackling.
lesweeks
Well-Known Member
My goodness me, you've got your work cut out there.
Tell you what, I'll give you two bottles of scotch for her!!
Tell you what, I'll give you two bottles of scotch for her!!
ccscott49
Well-Known Member
Somebody will know what those sails are, but I dont.
You really need to get the paint off the stem (front) and the steel off, so as to see how far any rot has progressed, before a chippy looks at it.
I doubt there is that much to do, she certainly doesn look lik she needs much.
Yes the paint on the inside will be a right PIDB (pain in de bum) but I would just remove the loose and then see whats left. a sand down and repaint might well be enough.
Dont spend a lot of money, she really isnt worth a whole heap, but she is worth saving and will be great fun for you and the girls!
The outside is easy, just sand, fill where ness, with a marine filler and paint, with a good system, Dulux weather shield would be my choice.
But as Lakesailor says, get her in the water first to see if you like her and then do the work.
I enjoy doing the work, and know I like wee clinker boats, so doesnt matter to me!
Once she is all rigged she'll be a wee topper!!
You really need to get the paint off the stem (front) and the steel off, so as to see how far any rot has progressed, before a chippy looks at it.
I doubt there is that much to do, she certainly doesn look lik she needs much.
Yes the paint on the inside will be a right PIDB (pain in de bum) but I would just remove the loose and then see whats left. a sand down and repaint might well be enough.
Dont spend a lot of money, she really isnt worth a whole heap, but she is worth saving and will be great fun for you and the girls!
The outside is easy, just sand, fill where ness, with a marine filler and paint, with a good system, Dulux weather shield would be my choice.
But as Lakesailor says, get her in the water first to see if you like her and then do the work.
I enjoy doing the work, and know I like wee clinker boats, so doesnt matter to me!
Once she is all rigged she'll be a wee topper!!
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
Good point about Marine Filler.
It looks just like car filler, it mixes the same and spreads the same and is even made by the same company, but is very different in that it costs a lot more and most important, it doesn't go all soft and drop out when immersed in water.
Of course, just like on a car, it won't stick to rotten substrate, but it is good for small repairs and fairing larger repairs (getting them smooth and shapely). I've just put some on a boat this morning.
Stronger and more structural are epoxy based fillers, but really you don't want to be using those to avoid replacing wood if that's what is needed. Also on clinker boats there is so much movement of the timber that epoxies can sometimes stop that movement and cause cracks to appear elsewhere to compensate.
It looks just like car filler, it mixes the same and spreads the same and is even made by the same company, but is very different in that it costs a lot more and most important, it doesn't go all soft and drop out when immersed in water.
Of course, just like on a car, it won't stick to rotten substrate, but it is good for small repairs and fairing larger repairs (getting them smooth and shapely). I've just put some on a boat this morning.
Stronger and more structural are epoxy based fillers, but really you don't want to be using those to avoid replacing wood if that's what is needed. Also on clinker boats there is so much movement of the timber that epoxies can sometimes stop that movement and cause cracks to appear elsewhere to compensate.
C
Chrusty1
Guest
Well having had a look at the photos, I would say that "grandad" enjoyed having a play and trying different rigs on her, (three masts, and many different sails).....She certainly had lee boards, and the last sail with the ensign on it looks like a gaff main, IMHO. There is also three yardes, which says to me that she may well have been lugg rigged at some time, and maybe one of the other sails fits in with that scheme of things.
I tend to agree with Lakey, just give her a bit of a scuff over, then slap on some cheap woolies gloss, just for the summer, find the cleanest salt water you can, (tidal and drying), and chuck her in, let her sink if needs be but be there to pump her out, as she dries out, or the press of water on her insides could shove her apart. Don't worry about the busted rib, it can easily be replaced, or simply doubled up.
I go along with the working boat theory, and I reckon she may well be a yard one off, built to the buyers specs and needs.
Once she has taken up, get out and sail her, she will give you hours of enjoyment, and who cares if she looks a bit scruffy, as some others have said, you need to bond with her before starting work, or the work might cause you to seek a divorce! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
As a beginner, you will I am sure find plenty of folks to help you, but try to make sure that anyone you listen to has an empathy for what she is, a dinghy racer, will have different parameters to what you will have. There is a lot of experience on this forum, and in some cases a lot of skills as well, so don't be afraid to come here and ask questions, we all started at the beginning after all.
I tend to agree with Lakey, just give her a bit of a scuff over, then slap on some cheap woolies gloss, just for the summer, find the cleanest salt water you can, (tidal and drying), and chuck her in, let her sink if needs be but be there to pump her out, as she dries out, or the press of water on her insides could shove her apart. Don't worry about the busted rib, it can easily be replaced, or simply doubled up.
I go along with the working boat theory, and I reckon she may well be a yard one off, built to the buyers specs and needs.
Once she has taken up, get out and sail her, she will give you hours of enjoyment, and who cares if she looks a bit scruffy, as some others have said, you need to bond with her before starting work, or the work might cause you to seek a divorce! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
As a beginner, you will I am sure find plenty of folks to help you, but try to make sure that anyone you listen to has an empathy for what she is, a dinghy racer, will have different parameters to what you will have. There is a lot of experience on this forum, and in some cases a lot of skills as well, so don't be afraid to come here and ask questions, we all started at the beginning after all.
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
Could be a "COG" Generic term used for working small boats used as tenders to barges etc,hence sculling notch in transome.Possibly lee boards added by amature sailer .later.As a working boat it would have some lug sail but not needing a drop keel or lee boards .
C
Chrusty1
Guest
Hmmmmm, she could well have been a ships boat of some sort......She certainly has some extra spurious bits and bobs nailed to her?? Pity there's no builders plate really! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
DownWest
Well-Known Member
HM, the last sail is a lug sail and is probably your best bet. The water proof material is likely to be Terelene/Dacron. Jeckells are still at that address and Chris Jeckells might still have a file ref by the number. Select a mast by seeing which matches the socket (step) and fit in the beam across (partners) look at rub marks and other signs of contact.
If you want to look at other similar rigs. Go to www.ouest-france.fr/detail_galerie it is in french, but no prob. click on the pics to the right and select the 'semain du golfe' It was a two yearly get together in Brittany for trad boats (1000+) I am in pic 9 in the little varnished clinker boat to the right of shot.
Any more info PM me.
Andrew
I am sad that some are letting the forum down by offering low prices to take it off your hands. I'll up them by 3 bottles of single malt. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Ed: I just checked on my link amd click on 'toutes les galeries photo'
A
If you want to look at other similar rigs. Go to www.ouest-france.fr/detail_galerie it is in french, but no prob. click on the pics to the right and select the 'semain du golfe' It was a two yearly get together in Brittany for trad boats (1000+) I am in pic 9 in the little varnished clinker boat to the right of shot.
Any more info PM me.
Andrew
I am sad that some are letting the forum down by offering low prices to take it off your hands. I'll up them by 3 bottles of single malt. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Ed: I just checked on my link amd click on 'toutes les galeries photo'
A
minho
New Member
Thanks for posting those photos. That is such an interesting boat for it is already antique. It'll be better if you'll fix and test it before using it.
Sequoiah1
Well-Known Member
Thats looks a very interesting boat and i thought it looked very much like a working fishing boat. See if you can get a copy of 'Woking boats in Britian' by Eric Mckee it looks a little like a smaller lighter built version of a Salmon stop net boat but with a keel. Its a piece of living history and absolutely fantastic that you have all those bits. Also you should send the pics to the natinal maritime museum they may also be able to help in identifying it. I would agree that it is proably one mans idea of the perfect fishing boat for wherever he was based. Where did the grandfather live ?
dur
Well-Known Member
I would use a bradawl and investigate around the stem band to see if there is actually rot there. No point pulling it apart if it is not rotten. Gently push the bradawl a little way into the wood around any suspect areas. Don't go digging you are just trying to see if the wood is still good. If it is not it will be relatively soft and the point will go in more easily. Also you can tap very gently with a very small hammer. If it sounds like wood it probably is. If you find a patch where it sounds dull, test it with the bradawl.
It is odd that there is a space between the band and the stem at that point - it wouldn't have been made with filler in there - at least I doubt it. But if it isn't rotten and not about to drop off, stick some putty in there, get a coat of paint on and go and get it wet. Avoid putting anything into any of the joints between the planks as they hopefully will close up when wet.
Don't forget to take a bucket but be prepared to let the boat sink the first time. Also if it does "take up" don't leave it full of water when the tide goes out - it might break something.
The iron rings inside the transom and stem suggest that it would have been lifted in davits - we had the same on a similar dink which had started life as a steam yacht tender.
Let us know how you get on!
dur
Well-Known Member
Well I mean't ordinary linseed oil glazing putty as it will stay soft enough to allow the wood to move if necessary. But it is true that the stem band might need a bit more support so you could use some of the fancy stuff but be cautious where else you use it. The question with old clinker boats is often whether to fill or put up with leaks before it takes up. There was a recent thread discussing this regarding a clinker speedboat. If you try some searches on clinker you will find some more.
You don't have to use yottie paint. Any good oil based enamel will do but follow the instructions on preparation, priming and undercoats. Paint before you get it wet. A search here on painting topsides will also give you a bit more background.
A trick when you have done your painting and are ready to go in the water is to lay old towels or blankets over the inside of the boat and then make them wet. Put a tarp over the boat and leave. Go back from time to time and check they are still damp. A day or two like this will start the taking up and reduce the bailing. You might even float if there aren't any massive holes!
You don't have to use yottie paint. Any good oil based enamel will do but follow the instructions on preparation, priming and undercoats. Paint before you get it wet. A search here on painting topsides will also give you a bit more background.
A trick when you have done your painting and are ready to go in the water is to lay old towels or blankets over the inside of the boat and then make them wet. Put a tarp over the boat and leave. Go back from time to time and check they are still damp. A day or two like this will start the taking up and reduce the bailing. You might even float if there aren't any massive holes!
