Boat denigration

You forgot to say how much are Birchwood prepared to pay Haydn !!

Adrian

/forums/images/icons/smile.gif <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/kelisha>Pics of Kelisha</A> /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif
 
: Various Brands of canned fish

. As all good con-men know . Brand is all about getting the customer to pay more for the product than it is really worth.

There appears to be VERY little of this in the boating industry. You really do get what you pay for.

Only success in this area i.e. Brand-Building ( from obseravtion) maybe Sunseeker. BUT their Distribution costs may actually be reflected in the selling price price 'cos their structure around this area looks expensive and wrong IMHO.

...I wanna boat please..
 
But why jump in now?

Because for the last 18 months I've read all manner of derogeratory comment about all manner of boat related product and nothing has been said, nothing bannished. Why now, when a boatbuilder comes into the firing line, have you chosen to step in? A certian marine engine manufacturer got hundreds of damming posts over the space of weeks with not a word.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I just wonder about the timming.

KevL

--
It may be the early bird that catches the worm but its the second mouse that gets the cheese.
 
Blame culture

Now don't get me off on that one.

Blame culture is wrecking so many things, or threatening to do so. Particularly ironic when you think that a lot of the appeal of boating, certainly for me, is to get out there and be completely responsible for my own welfare.

If it's any consolation I'll not sue you if you take my bow line, even if you twang it up a bit tight and leave me looking silly with the back end of the boat hanging out. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif And no you shouldn't get sued if the boat subsequently comes loose because it is my boat, I am master before God and it is my job to check and double check and treble check (does anyone else have to walk back to the boat three times from the marina car park before going home?).

Who in the boating industry is a role model? It's a fascinating question. I guess if we put to one side people who arguably cross over into the industry such as the Ellen MacArthurs of the world, then the industry is a bit of a closed book. Which in fact is probably a big mistake because there are some fascinating characters involved who have their hearts firmly in the right place and their minds similarly aligned. Our consumer titles naturally tend to stray away from featuring industry people that actually do good, particularly because the end result can look so sycophantic.

As a rule the marine industry doesn't pay well, so perhaps it is not necessarily attracting the best of talent, apart from the kids who are so in love with boating that they go for it anyway. If you go back far enough the industry relied on family evolution but that is gone now as well, mostly, in common with business generally.

We've been talking about this a lot amongst the marine titles recently. We have a scholarship scheme but it only places one person every two years. We also take work experience youngsters in but I'd personally like to do a lot more in this area.

I recently wrote for one of the business titles that I edit that good service is one of the marine industry's biggest threats but also one of its greatest opportunities. I think that is especially the case in Britain where good service on any commodity is not as common as it should be (and by that I mean as much in the high street, in restaurants, car garages and so on).

Recently opted for a Ford because the local small Ford dealership close to home has been offering us excellent service on the tiny amount of work they do on my wife's car each year. Says it all really.

kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com
 
Re: But why jump in now?

Probably simply because I had all manner of fascinating problems spring up at the same time with trolls and inter-user warfare here and on SB and therefore was having to take more notice than usual and spend a lot more hours checking things. That's the honest answer.

At the end of the day I'll make calls that are either right or wrong; perhaps there are things I have missed that in an ideal world might have been looked at a little more carefully.

Also I think there is a natural tendency for regular users to occasionally test the boundaries a bit and so I do wind up springing in here like a jack-in-the-box every few months or so. It's happened before with regard to other boatbuilders, product suppliers and forum users themselves; guess twill happen again.

kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com
 
Re: Blame culture

Yep - I totally agree with you.

A certain Rabbit (thumper) in the Walt Disney film Bambi I think summed it up.

"If you ain't got nothing nice to say don't nothing at all" - I think the grammar may be a bit suspect but the meaning is sound.

Lets start a "Build it up Campaign" and not as a prerequiste to knocking it down...... /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

ps I love my Fairline Holiday - such design .............


Adrian

(pps not so sure about the Ford bit - but thats another story for another time)

/forums/images/icons/smile.gif <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/kelisha>Pics of Kelisha</A> /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by lanason on 09/10/2002 19:19 (server time).</FONT></P>
 
Benalmadena

It's definitely Bedalmadena near Malaga. Just compared it with some piccies I took there last year and would put a shilling on me being right. Will post a piccie on B1's site when I can remeber how to do it, then you can all see.

And what's more Birchwood have a got a dealership there, so bound to have taken the piccie in their own back yard so to speak..

So I claim my bottle of Balvennie.

Oh and don't know what it says about me, but I quite like the look of the B'wood.
 
Private chat or public forum?

Okay Haydn but we've been here before haven't we? This could head down the 'one area for chat, one area for serious stuff' route. And no, this is not an attempt to reintroduce that notion I am very quick to add. Still trying to grow hair back over the singed bits from last time. But if it is all mixed up in one pot then if a serious enquiry comes in and is greeted with the simple reply "it's crap" is it really helping to keep MBC healthy?

Also this is not a private club; it is a publicly viewed forum and that brings a certain level of responsibility, certainly for us and for you too if you want to be helpful.

On a lighter note whad'ya mean you don't get paid? What you should be saying is "it's so good that ybw decide not to charge us huge amounts of beer money to post here." /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com
 
Re:Nasty Nasty marina develpment.

I suspect a perfectly good bit of spain/portugal disappeared under under a pile of developers concrete to create that nightmare in the background.IMHO.

Just hold tight dear it will not be so rough when we get round the corner,trust me.
 
Re: Private chat or public forum?

I was simply guessing the opinions of most of the forum users, not nesesarily my own. Perfectly agree that to much slagging off is not a good thing. However once some one has set off down that line it is not easy to change the direction and the mood of the thread. But IMHO it would be much better to say nowt and just let the thing die, than making an issue of it,. There by bringing three new threads up, on the same subject. On the subject of. "Helpfull" We are told countless times how much help folks have had on here, especialy interlaced with humour and the odd poke at some manufacturer or other. Only today I was sending PM's back and forth about a Princess that only did 14 Knots.

Now look at MDL, they got some stick. Then the MD came here and now there best thing since sliced bread and with cheap diesel too!!

Anyway. It's worn my bloody computer out coming here with all this invaluble advice. Even if I have not yet succeded in getting Byron to spell Diesel right!! So must ow me sumat. Perhaps I could sue for new computer. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

<font color=red> No one can force me to come here-----------
----- I'm a Volunteer! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Haydn
 
Design makes an image

I have to disagree with you Kim - beauty sure is in the eye of the beholder, but design makes an image and it is often more than skin deep.

Take for example B****wood - if they don't spend enough on cutting edge designers and just get some myopic student to design their boats, you can be pretty sure that similar corners will be cut all along.

You prove this by your Skoda reference - the reason that they survived was that the VW group bought the brand and spent proper money on design and evey other aspect of their build, and hence are regaining some respect - they did not survive because they were cheap and had crap design. In a few years they will be regarded as a cheaper VW, not an easten bloc joke.

Look at Leyland - the Princess, TR7, etc - couldn't be botherd to spend cash on design or anything else. But look at Ferrari - the best design and everything else money can buy.

In conusion, cheap design in most cases is a good indicator of cheap everything else and the likes of [insert badly designed production boat builders names here] will also be regarded as poor in other areas too.

Also, don't turn this forum into a nanny state please! :-)

M

http://www.geocities.com/jinto100/Jintopics.html
 
B\'wood Owners Club?

ugh we'd be in awful mess with no grp.

To prove my case may i call witness no 1 : the nastiest boat in the world "Ca Suffit" which is made from 8x 4 pieces ply one or two of which still reatin those exact dimensions, this boat bizarrely yet somehow poetically occupying a prime position in Antibes old port.

My second antiplywood witness will be the interior of that very nasty large 74ish Trader where the interior decor comprising wobbly-wall faux-veneer mahogany/teak veneered 3/16ths ply was actually transplanted from a B&B a few streets back from the front in Scarborough.

Third will be unpainted Mirror dinghies ... which i may hold back in case someone's Dad made one and they've still got it or have rose-tinted memories of sailing with splinters in their fingers.
 
nearly agree: bad design spoils advertised image?

Hear hear. But advertising creates the brand. The advertising might focus on the engineering (audi mercedes) or the lifestle (sunseeker rolex) or other factors like praps you will definitely get shagged if wearing this perfume and so on...

Not sure if you've had a Ferrari, in which case you know that the batteries go flat after 2 weeks, the suspensions pipes grind themselves on the exhaust. the seat are crap, the seat memories don't work, the rear of the car is wider than the wing mirrors, the aircon pisses water onto the carpet, and above 130mph when the suspension begins to work...your ears begin to bleed as the frameless door window glass gets sucked outwards with very noisy results. This on the expensive stuff not the cheap V8s.

The 456 form is lovely but overall the (poor) engineering design gives a worse result than an NSX, but ferraris sell 200 a year in the uk and nsx sold er 6 i think.

Where's that "brand recognition" post?
 
Re: nearly agree: bad design spoils advertised image?

I knew you would pick up on my Ferrari comment! Agreed, not a great example - bit too specialist, except they do do what they set out to do - look pretty, go fast, go round corners quick, fund their F1 jollies. And waddaya want aircon in a £120k car for ;-)

Advertising does create the brand (i hope so, its wot I get paid for) but the product does have to deliver to a certain extent or the brand positioning wont work however much ad spend you have.

M

http://www.geocities.com/jinto100/Jintopics.html
 
Which brand of perfume?

Just an innocent enquiry, but which PARTICULAR brand of perfume would that be TCM? And can you also buy that in bulk if you happen to know the forumla and does it burn your skin??

yada yada..
 
Re: Various canned fish

In response to your last question, the bases on which people may buy a boat will be wide ranging some of which are liable to change. I am a wannabe boater, who will likely buy a 10 year old Shetland 20 footer for less than £5k. Why? because of my budget, and it would satisfy my limited needs, judging from new and not new Shetlands I have looked at. In this instance, I am able to not allow myself to be swayed by the Shetland exhibitor's staff at the last 4 Soton Boat shows whom I did not find to be much good.

If my budget was £20k I would go for a Landau 20 cruiser (likely second hand), because of budget, space, I was impressed by the way it handles and by the knowledge, helpfulness and unpretentious approach of the Hunter staff.

In the above two cases, though not glitzy, their brands have strength for the areas that I am interested in.

If my budget for my first boat was in excess of £k250, I would likely be swayed against unhelpful/child unfriendly sales staff, so I guess that revenge would play a part at that level of budget.

Robbie W
 
Re: Design makes an image

Interesting that the Princess came from one the top Italian design houses, and the TR7 is in fact a very good car, with bad press.
The other interesting point is Sealine were the first boat builder to bring in a top outside designer, the others builders took a number of years longer to follow them. Some people still moan, but a section of the market is happy, so the firm goes on, VW to some look terrable bit of design, but a section of people do like them, so they go on. just a matter of satisfying enough people.

The other problem is not bad design, it's paper oy screen design. That is drawing a visualistion that looks good, then when you build it you see the paper picture, not the actual item, re the old story of the King and his magic suit of clothes.
 
Re: shagtastic perfume

alas, i can say with confidence that neither i not anybody else on this forum knows the formula.

-----
two twin brothers. One has loads of girlfriends, other has none. Eventually, luckless brother asks how he hass so many girlfiends, is it the perfum or wot.

"ah, you have to have the patter, talk to them, be nice, compliment them, and so on."

"yeah yeah....but i get tongue tied and shy - EXACTLY what words do i say as an opener?"

alright says the experinced brother - try this "Gosh, that's a lovely dress - but not half as nice as the girl who's wearing it!"

Luckless bro spends a week muttering this himself, getting it word perfect. Friday niught he goes to the pub. All the wimmin at the bar are wearing trousers or skirts so that's no good. He takes up a seat near the exit from the women's loo, and after several hous eventually sees a beutiful girl- wearing a dress!

"Gosh, that's a lovely dress - but not half as nice as the girl who's wearing it!"

And it seems to work- the girl stops and smiles, and say how how kind of him to say so...

It 's now our hero's turn to progress the conversation...
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."er ummm errrrrr errmmmml.... Did you have a good sh!t, then?!!"
 
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