Boarded By The Authorities

[Hurricane]

Recently had the 'Guardia di Finanza' questioning why I don't have an Italian registration number on my boat. I was still in the marina and about to lock up and leave for the airport. When I told them it was UK flagged they asked to see the registration papers. The tiny laminated SSR had them bemused.
They went on to ask for my licence (don't think they'd seen an ICC before), passport and, wierdly, the owner's manual for the engines. No mention of VAT or bill of sale.
After a long phone call, presumably to his boss, he gave me a form to say I'd been inspected and that was that, all very friendly and lots of hand shaking.
Mine's the only non-Italian flagged boat in the marina.

I think this is where a Part 1 registration plays a good part - The British Register requires a lot mor information about the boat for a Part 1 rather than a simple SSR
Most people in our marina though, just use the SSR

I remember being stopped in Villefranche whilst leaving with another boat and JFM
The other boat and I are private Part 1 registered so the authorities only had to check the validity of the Part 1 certificate - they were happy with everything else - I can't entirely remember but I don't think they even asked for my passport. JFM, on the other hand, was not (I believe) privately registered so had to show more documentation than us.

 

[Tranona]

These SOLAS rules are pretty awful. They've drafted a rule but left it completely uncertain whether a passage plan in the skipper's head is good enough. How useless is that? They make rules, set up penalties for non compliance, but don't make even a half-hearted attempt to specify the boundary between being in compliance versus in breach of the rule. It's just awful.

Happened to be looking the other day for examples of prosecutions involving passage plans and only recent one I could find was in 2012 following an incident when Ocean Youth Trust yacht Lord Rank ran aground.

Brought under Section 100 of MSA and findings were skipper had failed to make a passage plan, not followed OYT operating procedures and owner had failed to manage the ship to ensure safe operation. Owners fined £250. Skipper subsequently had his Yachtmaster revoked. No details recorded of the evidence or arguments.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

The tiny laminated SSR had them bemused.

Yup, its amazing how reverently foreign authorities treat a SSR registration document, I guess because it's laminated and thus, very official looking. Little do they know how easy it is to get one and how meaningless it actually is

 

[Tranona]

I think this is where a Part 1 registration plays a good part - The British Register requires a lot mor information about the boat for a Part 1 rather than a simple SSR
Most people in our marina though, just use the SSR

Should not make any difference. Registration in this context is to do with establishing flag, not title which is the thing that a Part 1 does that an SSR doesn't. The little SSR chit does not look particularly impressive, though as it is smaller and less ornate than the A4 plastic of Part 1. Not a patch on the old Blue Book though!

 

[Tranona]

Yup, its amazing how reverently foreign authorities treat a SSR registration document, I guess because it's laminated and thus, very official looking. Little do they know how easy it is to get one and how meaningless it actually is

But it is not "meaningless" It does what it is supposed to do.

 

[Cardo]

Would a passage plan, in the form of a route created on an iPad/plotter suffice? Whilst I keep an hourly log of position and other details whilst en route, my passage planning all goes on the iPad, then synced to the plotter, which the AP then follows.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Yep - Jimmy, I agree
I think the SOLAS requirement is more a matter of being able to prove that you have a plan.
For us a quick trip out to the lagoon or down to the next marina for lunch doesn't IMO really require a detailed plan but there is still a plan.
You probably remember my plan for the longer passages - a "check sheet" sheet of A4 with all the info ticked off - only takes about 1 minute to complete.
For the longer passages, there is also another A4 Log sheet which we fill in every half hour - remember?

I do remember it well. I also remember your maxim about making sure every crew member has a job to do, from logging to lines. It all worked very well on those long passages when I was on your crew. Happy days and great experiences.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Recently had the 'Guardia di Finanza' questioning why I don't have an Italian registration number on my boat. I was still in the marina and about to lock up and leave for the airport. When I told them it was UK flagged they asked to see the registration papers. The tiny laminated SSR had them bemused.
They went on to ask for my licence (don't think they'd seen an ICC before), passport and, wierdly, the owner's manual for the engines. No mention of VAT or bill of sale.
After a long phone call, presumably to his boss, he gave me a form to say I'd been inspected and that was that, all very friendly and lots of hand shaking.
Mine's the only non-Italian flagged boat in the marina.

Do you have your SSR number on the back of the boat?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

But it is not "meaningless" It does what it is supposed to do.

What is it supposed to do? The registration process doesn't attempt to properly verify title or record any kind of finance outstanding on the boat. Anyone who can drive a computer can register any boat in a few strokes of a keyboard. How many people even bother to put their SSR number on the side of their boat? As far as I can see, it's a wheeze by the MCA to extract a few quid out of boatowners. I do agree that it does impress gullible foreign officials who seem to think that just because you possess a SSR certificate, you must be the rightful owner of the boat you happen to be sitting on so I suppose in that sense, it does have a purpose

 

[adey]

Yup, its amazing how reverently foreign authorities treat a SSR registration document, I guess because it's laminated and thus, very official looking. Little do they know how easy it is to get one and how meaningless it actually is

Was funny watching them match the SSR number on the card to the tiny numbers on the boat.
Much care was taken that it was exactly the same.
Didn't have the heart to tell them that the SSR comes from the internet and the number sticker off e-bay!

 

[Hurricane]

What is it supposed to do? The registration process doesn't attempt to properly verify title or record any kind of finance outstanding on the boat. Anyone who can drive a computer can register any boat in a few strokes of a keyboard. How many people even bother to put their SSR number on the side of their boat? As far as I can see, it's a wheeze by the MCA to extract a few quid out of boatowners. I do agree that it does impress gullible foreign officials who seem to think that just because you possess a SSR certificate, you must be the rightful owner of the boat you happen to be sitting on so I suppose in that sense, it does have a purpose

I remember TCM commenting on the ICC in the same lines
The ICC is just a certificate to say that you are competent.
As far as I can see anyone could issue one.
IIRC the questions/test for ICC is on the back of an application form
The whole thing is a bit of a joke really
IMO, Yachtmaster is a much better qualification but the authorities don't seem to understand it.
I suppose, as a leisure industry, we are better off having something as simple as ICC rather than beginners having to jump through all kinds of hoops.
So I shouldn't moan really

 

[Hurricane]

Was funny watching them match the SSR number on the card to the tiny numbers on the boat.
Much care was taken that it was exactly the same.
Didn't have the heart to tell them that the SSR comes from the internet and the number sticker off e-bay!

I think it was JFM that said if you want something to look official - GET A RUBBER STAMP - probably not a Mickey Mouse one though.

 

[Tranona]

What is it supposed to do? The registration process doesn't attempt to properly verify title or record any kind of finance outstanding on the boat. Anyone who can drive a computer can register any boat in a few strokes of a keyboard. How many people even bother to put their SSR number on the side of their boat? As far as I can see, it's a wheeze by the MCA to extract a few quid out of boatowners. I do agree that it does impress gullible foreign officials who seem to think that just because you possess a SSR certificate, you must be the rightful owner of the boat you happen to be sitting on so I suppose in that sense, it does have a purpose

Sorry but you are just wrong. It does not intend to be a register of title. It was introduced to provide a simple document to show that the boat is British flag. Introduced in the early 1980s mainly in response to other states, particularly France requiring evidence of nationality of British yachts visiting their waters. Foreign officials are not interested in general in title but in nationality.

So, nothing to do with MCA taking money, all to do with a low cost way of enabling people to travel abroad in their yachts without having to go through the Part 1 process, which for many is impossible anyway.

 

[Tranona]

IIRC the questions/test for ICC is on the back of an application form
The whole thing is a bit of a joke really

Sorry to be a bore but that is just not the case. You can only get an ICC if you already have a qualifying certificate or pass a separate test based on the minimum requirements. The bit you are referring to is the CEVNI endorsement for certain inland waterways.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Sorry but you are just wrong. It does not intend to be a register of title. It was introduced to provide a simple document to show that the boat is British flag.

I didn't say it provides a register of title. In fact I said quite the opposite. Neither is it any proper evidence of a boat being British flagged because it is so easily obtained. OK so we can agree it is a convenient sop to foreign officialdom

 

[jfm]

I didn't say it provides a register of title. In fact I said quite the opposite. Neither is it any proper evidence of a boat being British flagged because it is so easily obtained. OK so we can agree it is a convenient sop to foreign officialdom

I can imagine Tranona tearing his hair out! Deleted User, you're post above is a non sequitur; you're not following the plot. You did indeed criticise SSR by saying it doesn't prove title, and Tranona's perfectly correct response was "sure, but SSR was never intended to be title"

SSR does serve as some evidence of British nationality. French officials as a matter of national culture love to see things in documents rather than look around at the facts, and SSR plays to this characteristic. As you say, it is a sop to foreign officialdom, but to be fair SSR has never really claimed to be anything else

 

[pan]

Been boarded 3-4 times a year for the last 5 years in Majorca.

Luckily not so last year! After taking fuel from local pumps then not paying their bills, they caused one fuel company to go bankrupt. Since then, they are supposedly on a cash payment basis.

I am very pleased about their clipped wings... bureaucratic bar stewards..

Wow..been boating in Mallorca for 30 years, only boarded once! Clearly you & boat look very suspicious (or topless!!)

 

[Hurricane]

Sorry to be a bore but that is just not the case. You can only get an ICC if you already have a qualifying certificate or pass a separate test based on the minimum requirements. The bit you are referring to is the CEVNI endorsement for certain inland waterways.

You are not a bore
I always find your posts very interesting

When I first got my ICC it was off the back of a very old Powerboat Level 2 qualification
I'm sure I took a short test
This was in the days where there was only one ICC (now there is under and over 10m)
I may be wrong though - old age creeping up etc...
I know SWMBO got her ICC from her Day Skipper.
And, yes, I also remember the CEVNI test that I took before cruising to Holland and, as you say, that was on the back of the application form.

 

[Portofino]

In the early years in the SoF we were " done " on what seemed like an annual basis -Villfranche and between the Lerins -have seen them ( different boat ) @ the Porqueroles too.
It's a a50-60 ftr Gray coastguard type cutter .Anchors and spews a black rib with 3-4 persons armed ,comes along side .
Remember these are busy anchorages .Tend to start with foreign ( to them) flagged boats .
Very polite and professional when they board .
Reg cert we are part 1 ,insurance ,passports -that's it really .
They ask where the home port is too .
All the docs -like most I expect are in a file ,so we just tip it out on the cockpit table, and rummage through it all as they ask. So they can see things like BoS and my French " Permit du Mer " etc but they have NOT really asked for them or picked one up .
Some one on the rib has a laptop -presumably recording if you were done last week by a diff crew .
Although one year we were done twice -however past few years we have escaped -that's not to say they are not busy ,they sometimes spend what seems over an hour on some boats -lots of writing and issuing of papers observed .
Also when they arrive -general upping of anchors also observerd
Once in the Porqueroles we were" done " by some sort of environmental police ( its a maritime national park ) -to check we had a black water tank ,+ other Eco trendy policies like not chucking trash and food overboard and issues over soap shampoo etc etc - there were a lot of smaller vessels kipping the night too -so I guess those guys could potentially harm the enviroment .

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I can imagine Tranona tearing his hair out! Deleted User, you're post above is a non sequitur; you're not following the plot. You did indeed criticise SSR by saying it doesn't prove title, and Tranona's perfectly correct response was "sure, but SSR was never intended to be title"

SSR does serve as some evidence of British nationality. French officials as a matter of national culture love to see things in documents rather than look around at the facts, and SSR plays to this characteristic. As you say, it is a sop to foreign officialdom, but to be fair SSR has never really claimed to be anything else

The discussion with Tranona was about whether the SSR certificate is a meaningful document. Just because French officials are impressed by it doesn't make it a meaningful document in terms of confirming anything valid about the boat to which it refers or the person who is presenting it