BMC starting / heater plugs / bitch wont fire up!

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MANXPEDRO

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19 Sep 2007
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RAMSEY, ISLE OF MAN
www.ramseybedandbreakfast.com
Ship ahoy! Help needed again!

My boat has an old 1.5 BMC, who never misses a beat. My only problem is, I go through about 2 set of heatrer plugs a year!!! She likes a lot of heat, usually 45 seconds, but today, she was having none of it.....the bitch! Weather she was being greedy or not, I tried her a second time at 60 seconds, then a third time at 75 seconds. Although she was trying to shart, she just wouldnt. There's fuel going through, an I've checked all the usual, but nothing. I could bet, that if I lashed a new set of hgeater plugs in her, she'd fire first go. But I feel hard of spending 30 quid every few months if thyere's another way.

Now, does anybody else's BMC engine have a hunger for heater plugs?

Does anybody have an alternative starting method? (Except easy start!)

She's got good compression and the live feed from the battery goes through a big switch, with no relays to fail !!

Any help, gratefully recieved!

Pedro.
 
Mine was about the same

MANXPEDRO said:
Ship ahoy! Help needed again!

My boat has an old 1.5 BMC, who never misses a beat. My only problem is, I go through about 2 set of heatrer plugs a year!!! She likes a lot of heat, usually 45 seconds, but today, she was having none of it.....the bitch! Weather she was being greedy or not, I tried her a second time at 60 seconds, then a third time at 75 seconds. Although she was trying to shart, she just wouldnt. There's fuel going through, an I've checked all the usual, but nothing. I could bet, that if I lashed a new set of hgeater plugs in her, she'd fire first go. But I feel hard of spending 30 quid every few months if thyere's another way.

Now, does anybody else's BMC engine have a hunger for heater plugs?

Does anybody have an alternative starting method? (Except easy start!)

She's got good compression and the live feed from the battery goes through a big switch, with no relays to fail !!

Any help, gratefully recieved!

Pedro.
Click to expand...

My old boat had a BMC 1.5 and only had the one set over the 15 years I had it. But mine also took about 45 secs. Could be that your supplier is getting in c r a p plugs from India / China. I think part of the problem is that once one plug has gone dud, the engine is harder to start so you then end up with a longer on time and so that kills one of the remaining and so on.

Just noticed that you are paying £30 for 4 plugs which is not the price for cheap and chearfull types. Check the voltage you are getting at the actual plugs as you may have a volt drop somewhere.
 
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How long have you been using easy start?


The old myth about once you have used it they get addicted to it is true, most motors I've stripped after using the stuff have broken top rings, that's why they get addicted to it, simple answer lack of compression.

Have you got the correct plugs as there could be different voltages , if the plugs at lower voltage they will burn out early.

Tip my old tech told me with old motors.

As we all know diesels create heat when turned over( compression) if you have the old style with a stop rod or cable, place the stop control in the stop position, crankthe engine for 15 to 20 seconds then open the stop control to give it fuel, the cylinder will be warmer along with the air/ fuel mix it will help and old bmc and Perkins 4107 style engine to start in colder weather . I'd take the plugs out, test and clean the tips.

I have also found the combustion chambers on older engines full of carbon, the glow pin often just sits in the carbon doing nothing as it can't really heat the chamber fully as it should do.
 
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Yeah, usually, the replacement of heater plugs is a once every blue moon, but your right, in what you say about buying the cheap ones. Just been on ebay and bought some propper 'Durite' ones at 53 quid! So they should last a bit.....touch wood!

Also, there shouldnt be any voltage drop, as the power comes straight from the battery, through a heavy load switch, then to the plugs (hence me not bothering with a relay....more to go wrong!).

Has anybody fitted one of those heaters into their inlet manifold (like the ones on a Perkins I think) where it glows hot, then a fuel supply feeds directly onto the hot plug....I'm thinking of one of those as well?
 
MANXPEDRO said:
Yeah, usually, the replacement of heater plugs is a once every blue moon, but your right, in what you say about buying the cheap ones. Just been on ebay and bought some propper 'Durite' ones at 53 quid! So they should last a bit.....touch wood!

Also, there shouldnt be any voltage drop, as the power comes straight from the battery, through a heavy load switch, then to the plugs (hence me not bothering with a relay....more to go wrong!).

Has anybody fitted one of those heaters into their inlet manifold (like the ones on a Perkins I think) where it glows hot, then a fuel supply feeds directly onto the hot plug....I'm thinking of one of those as well?
Click to expand...

Think you are looking for one of these

http://www.parts4engines.com/index.php?main_page=product_info*products_id=557

But you still need a drip feed onto it and make sure it does not leak or you will get a runaway engine :(
 
The link says page not found, but after a quick look, should it have taken me to the thermostart?

It's at the right price, so I think I'll order one an fit it.

What do you mean, a drip feed? I was thinking of running a pipe from between the lift pump and injector pump to the thermostart?
 
volvopaul said:
I have also found the combustion chambers on older engines full of carbon, the glow pin often just sits in the carbon doing nothing as it can't really heat the chamber fully as it should do.
Click to expand...

This is very common on the BMC and happened to one of my previous boats. Running a suitably sized drill bit to remove the carbon prior to installing the new glow plugs transformed starting on my one. 10 to 15 secs of heat and it was off.
 
Sorry, I didnt see the comment above re: easy start. I've never used the stuff, nor I never will, I've alsn seen what it does. I also see people starting their boats on the dreaded stuff.....It's only a matter of time before they need to restart at sea, and they've run out!

The batterys I have, is 120 amp , both coupled thropugh the isolator, so plenty of juice going there. The engine fair whizz's over!

I've ordered new plugs, and also just ordered a thermostart (from the site above! (thanks Jcorstorphine!)).

I will also try the drill bit down the plug hole too. It wont do any harm, and if it does 'hoik' out any carbon build up, great! 10 to 15 seconds heat sounds too good to be true!
 
Not sure if you are able, but we sometimes have to blow warm air into the manifold of our Sabre 180's as we do not have thermostart fitted, so out comes the black and decker heat gun, out goes one of the blanking plugs on the cross over, in goes the warm air and then on turning the key away they go. Also reduces the amount of smoke we produce. Or maybe a proper blow torch on the inlet manifold will get you going, a regular practice with our old fork lift in winter.
 
MANXPEDRO said:
Sorry, I didnt see the comment above re: easy start. I've never used the stuff, nor I never will, I've alsn seen what it does. I also see people starting their boats on the dreaded stuff.....It's only a matter of time before they need to restart at sea, and they've run out!

The batterys I have, is 120 amp , both coupled thropugh the isolator, so plenty of juice going there. The engine fair whizz's over!

I've ordered new plugs, and also just ordered a thermostart (from the site above! (thanks Jcorstorphine!)).

I will also try the drill bit down the plug hole too. It wont do any harm, and if it does 'hoik' out any carbon build up, great! 10 to 15 seconds heat sounds too good to be true!
Click to expand...

Might like to look at this video as give a couple of pointers on how to clean the glow plug hole and expel any debris.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4rTfRx82e8
 
MANXPEDRO said:
I will also try the drill bit down the plug hole too. It wont do any harm, and if it does 'hoik' out any carbon build up, great! 10 to 15 seconds heat sounds too good to be true!
Click to expand...

The original workshop manual for the engine mentioned the size of drill bit to use. Unless the engine is worn or has bad injectors it should go with that amount of glow. It doesnt need to be in a drill, just use the bit to cut out any carbon

The same trick worked on an old diesel escort turbo diesel I had that was a poor starter.
 
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Have a look here

MANXPEDRO said:
The link says page not found, but after a quick look, should it have taken me to the thermostart?

It's at the right price, so I think I'll order one an fit it.

What do you mean, a drip feed? I was thinking of running a pipe from between the lift pump and injector pump to the thermostart?
Click to expand...

But how do you control the fuel being fed to the Thermostart. Best to look here

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110944

I think you need to be careful as the inlet manifold on the BMC sloped down to the inlet so you could leak fuel into the boat. Think you need to look at fitting an additional section to the manifold to provide some form of dam.
 
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My company used to work on lots of BMC 1.5's we still see a few of them, the biggest problem with starting issues is without a shadow of a doubt carbon build up where the glow plug fits, ream the hole out with the correct size drill bit, spin the engine over with the glow plug out to discharge the carbon, test the plugs, refit good plugs, make sure you have a good power supply to the plugs and providing the engine isn't completely knackered it will fire up within 20 seconds
 
Thank you for the 2 links to youtube and thermostarts. both very interesting. I think when I install my thermostart, I'll fit a small remote, gravity fed (with an isolation valve) resevior.

RIGHT, THATS IT....I'M OFF DOWN THE BOAT NOW! GOING TO BRING THE DRILL BITS DOWN WITH ME, AND I'LL LET YOU ALL KNOW HOW I GET ON LATER ON WHEN I GET BACK!!! (much to the disproval of the missus!)

Thank you for all your advice, comments and help....will update you soon!
 
Ok, it's gone midnight, but I'm now back from the boat!

Removal of the first 2 heater plugs was straight forward, (well except that they're nicely hidden behind injector pipes/oil cooler etc, awkward, but ok!). the second 2, were total bl00dy b@st@rds! They unscrewed all the was to the last thread, but wouldnt come out. I imagine, they were carboned up, which was stopping the element sliding out through the hole. I spent more time getting these 2out, than reassembling the whole lot afterwards.They even didnt come outafter i cranked her over.....I thought they might have fired out like bullets!!!
These 2 got slightly bent coming out using a bar and screw driver, i was worried sick they might snap off in place, but i was lucky.

Selection of drill bits to hand, I went through them until i got the one which fitted snugly in the hole. The first one slid straight in, almost loosing it, but the other 3 needed working back and forth several times to clear the ****e. All 4 (2 old spares to replace the bent ones) screwed all the way in and were nipped up.

15 seconds of heat, and she fired up like a dream! :-)

I'll fit the new heater plugs when they come and give the holes another clean out while im at it.

VERY MANY THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP, I REALLY APPRECIATE IT!
 
MANXPEDRO said:
15 seconds of heat, and she fired up like a dream! :-)

I'll fit the new heater plugs when they come and give the holes another clean out while im
Click to expand...

Excellent news:)

Do this once a year and you won't get the carbon build up, and you won't have so much trouble getting the plugs out, if they break in situ then it is cylinder head off:(
 
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