BMC 1.5 starting problem

[SteveA]

I have a BMC 1.5 diesel which was fully rebuilt last year which doesn't want to start after being left for a while.
Initially thought it must be air getting into the fuel system somehow so all fuel lines have been changed - no better; then thought partially blocked filters - primary changed for a Racor and secondary for new filter element - no better; injectors out and checked, all OK - no better; heater plugs out and checked, all Ok and holes reamed with the magic 11/64th drill - no better; fuel lift pump was new last year and hand pumps well when priming; HP pump hasn't been changed but once started the engine is fine with plenty of power. I'm running out of ideas!!
Once started (after maybe 5 or 6 attempts where it seems to be trying to fire on one or two cyclinders) the engine runs very well and will restart at the first turn of the key with no thottle on all day but leave it over night and I'm back to the same problem.
As an ex MN engineer I'm annoyed that this is beating me - some fresh ideas would be most welcome.

 

[johnlilley]

Hi there
The most likely culprit is low compression, slight water leak from head gasket into cylinder, noticeable if white smoke from exhaust immediately on starting, or, even more likely a heater plug fault. On this particular engine I believe the heater plugs are wired in series which puts total reliance on every single heater plug working efficiently. Although the heater plugs may appear to be working, it is important to check the final earth connection as, any resistance here reduces the efficiency of all heater plugs.
Also check to ensure sound connections on the heater plug wiring from the ignition switch control forwards.

John Lilley

 

[RobinBirch]

Once started (after maybe 5 or 6 attempts where it seems to be trying to fire on one or two cyclinders) the engine runs very well and will restart at the first turn of the key with no thottle on all day but leave it over night and I'm back to the same problem.
As an ex MN engineer I'm annoyed that this is beating me - some fresh ideas would be most welcome.[/QUOTE]

Steve

I had a similar problem on my BMC 1.5. Sounds like heater electrics.

Can you hear the heater solenoid 'click' as you turn the key to 'heat'. If not there may be a problem due to a poor connection or the solenoid may be u/s. I'd clean and vaseline up all the connections from the key to the solenoid and from the solenoid and along to the in series connections to the last last heater plug.

I changed the heater solenoid but as Hanser is on a river mooring these connections seem particularly vulnerable to a bit of damp. A quick clean up inevitably sorts out any reluctance to start.

 

[Alpha22]

It does sound a bit like a glow problem. Have you tried connecting the glow plugs directly to a battery with a pair of jump leads and then try starting. If all is well, the problem is somewhere in the glow plug circut.

 

[mtb]

head gasket or

exhaust valve burned out
slight leak re none return valves in pump,
or fuel line banjo
have you anealed the banjo washers
bleed nipple on pump they can get over tightened leaving a life long problem


I think your able to test the plugs so rule that one out I say

cheers
Mick

 

[SteveA]

Many thanks for the replies:

John, We don't have white smoke but the idea of low compression is worth examining - even though the engine was rebuilt last year. As the engine is the earth connection for the heater pugs I don't think that this is the problem. I have checked and we are getting battery voltage to these heater plugs.
Robin, There is no solenoid in the circuit just battery voltage applied fron the key switch - which I've checked is there.
Alpha, No I've not checked that although I have checked that we do get battery voltage on the plugs when the key is in the relevant position - I will try that one!
Mick, Doubt it's valve burnt out - engine rebuilt last year and when running it runs well with plenty of power and clear exhaust. All banjo connections were annealled prior to fitting and I think I know enough not to over tighten - but not enough to know what the hell is wrong with this engine!! There is an additional N/R valve fitted after the secondary filter - but where would the fuel be flowing to anyway as the system is tight with no leaks.
Thanks for the ideas and please keep them coming

 

[Ludd]

do a search

There was a thread on here a while ago, where someone was told they needed a new engine! He was steered to another engineer,who showed him EXACTLY how this engine needs to be bled----apparently it's a swine!
I note you're an engineer,but the initial(good) advice given was talk to a London black cab (FX4) driver for an opinion on bleedin' 1.5 bmc engines!

 

[fisherman]

We had this with a BMC 1.5 in a Leyland truck, a minute of heater plugs, a try on the starter, then mostly had to roll it down hill. We eventually sold it to an engineer, when we next saw him we asked about getting it started. "No problem, you just have to put a big battery on it to spin it fast enough."

It is possible in extremis to get a start by burning paper or a gas torch in the air intake, doesn't do the harm that easystart does. Not nice down in an engineroom though.

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

This definitely sounds like a heater problem to me. Our BMC 1.5 needs at least 30 seconds heating when starting from cold (45 secs in winter). If it doesn't get enough it gives exactly the symptoms you describe.

Was it starting OK before the rebuild or was this the reason for rebuilding?

 

[SteveA]

Many thanks for the additional ideas - it's a bit breezy here at the moment and the boat is on a swinging mooring so don't fancy going out to it today but if it's calmer tomorrow I'll take out another battery and try direct connection from that to the heater plugs and also use it to supliment the starter battery. Progress report tomorrow.

 

[PetiteFleur]

I agree with others - on my (old) BMC 1.5 I found it only had 3 heater plugs, the previous owner had obviously broken one and never repaired it, I had the head off, repaired the heater plug, reground all the valves, refitted with all new gaskets etc and still it wouldn't start................. Eventually did a compression test and was down on two cylinders(bought a tester on ebay and then resold on ebay).
I had an unexpected windfall and decided to fit a new engine - best decision I'd made - I had already spent several hundred pounds on the BMC. Sold it on ebay for a reasonable sum.

 

[Jim@sea]

I dont suppose its on Windamere by any chance?.
Anyway if you had the engine "re-built" were the push rods and cam followers and put back in the same order. Did you have the valves re-ground, And if your head gasket is not the same thickness as the original, then it could be down to adjustments.

 

[pampas]

Have read and reread the op`s post, the only suggestion I can make it to get the injector pump tested as you have done everthing that is possible and that only leaves the pump. Could be a worn rack at the cold start position, once running moves to a good bit of rask or vibration masks the faulty bit.

 

[BARKERSLEY]

Heater [or not] plugs?

My BMC 1.5 in a narrowboat, has had the same problem for some time. I suspected the heater plugs but was reluctant to remove them as they can easily break off inside the head - less likely the newer the refit. I have helped out another owner with his Lister and this gave me my solution. I am fortunate that I have a small genny on board and by removing the air cleaner [the type that usually falls off anyway]. With 240v running I switched on and inserted a hot air stripper enough to draw in hot air , not enough to overheat the stripper [I should be so lucky!] Gave it about thirty seconds and turned the reluctant diesel over. A few coughs and splutters and she started. I've since refined the system and I do have to start the genny but it works every time. Upshot? It's proved I definitely need new heater plugs but I can wait until the head comes off. Good luck.

 

[colink]

I have a BMC 1.5 diesel which was fully rebuilt last year which doesn't want to start after being left for a while.
Initially thought it must be air getting into the fuel system somehow so all fuel lines have been changed - no better; then thought partially blocked filters - primary changed for a Racor and secondary for new filter element - no better; injectors out and checked, all OK - no better; heater plugs out and checked, all Ok and holes reamed with the magic 11/64th drill - no better; fuel lift pump was new last year and hand pumps well when priming; HP pump hasn't been changed but once started the engine is fine with plenty of power. I'm running out of ideas!!
Once started (after maybe 5 or 6 attempts where it seems to be trying to fire on one or two cyclinders) the engine runs very well and will restart at the first turn of the key with no thottle on all day but leave it over night and I'm back to the same problem.
As an ex MN engineer I'm annoyed that this is beating me - some fresh ideas would be most welcome.

i had a similar problem some time ago. i found the gauze in the lift pump was dirty. when this happens the fuel struggles to get through initially but once the engine starts it flows fine under power, the problem is if the gauze is badly blocked it creates a slight vacum on the supply side which over time ....(sunday to friday perhaps), the fuel is sucked back to tank. fix this by removing ths 6 screws on the top of the lift pump and carefully remove the gauze with a fine screwdriver....carefull it would be easy to puncture. cotton buds are also usefull to clean the bottom of the bowl after mopping out the dirty fuel. refill the bowl with clean fuel, replace top and 6 screws, prime manually and restart.....perhaps you should do this on a warm engine to be sure of an easy restart. i hope this helps, if not let me know and we can look again. regards, colin.