Bluewater vs offshore ???

Re-reading this thread we must be careful not to confuse cmedsailor, and as tcm says these are vague terms.

Cmed if you are interested in the terms because you are looking to buy a boat, "offshore" would not mean no ocean sailing. Bluewater sailing is a rather romanticised term and has nothing to do with storm forces or hours in forecasts.
 
tcm said:
The islands to which you refer are the "Azores". Not the "Azures". Typo's are allowed - not utter lack of knowledge of basic geography, jeez.
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Either you are too angry today to spot a pun or you lack the cerebral capacity to do so. But keep fuming, it will help me decide.
 
jonjo4 said:
Either you are too angry today to spot a pun or you lack the cerebral capacity to do so. But keep fuming, it will help me decide.
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Puns in a thread asking for help with confusing meanings of some English words by a person with English as his second language. Interesting approach.
 
Me, me, me

Hm, I seem remember jonjo4 was confident about experience etc etc against webcraft too! That ran into the sand eh? Now he's pitchd himself at some other 75percent of channel sailors. haha.

Hint for everyone - it's *always* best avoid the "wild guess" comparisons against other people's boats, wealth, expertise and intelligence on forums. Especially if you're jonjo4...

Heyho, still waiting for jonjo4 to perhaps modify his venomous remarks on the other thread.
 
cmedsailor said:
Sorry if this questions sounds silly to most of you but I am trying to learn the English terminology (English is not my native language).
What is the difference between "bluewater" and "offshore"? Am I correct to believe that both words mean the same? A boat built to cross oceans?
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No precise definitions, particularly when it comes to selling a boat!

To me, my own boat is "offshore" at 35 ft and with a category 0 or A depending on system. But to make it a blue water boat is would need to be bigger and to be equipped with things like generator ( hot showers and morning toast) and freezer, all intended to make it possible to live onboard long term.

Don't know what your native language is, but in English anything goes so dont worry. The grammar is vague, spelling is not really important and varies according to the brand of English ( ie American, British, Indian, Ozzie etc) , pronunciation is very definitely not standardised, and words mean different things to different people.
 
tcm said:
Hm, I seem remember jonjo4 was confident about experience etc etc against webcraft too! That ran into the sand eh? Now he's pitchd himself at some other 75percent of channel sailors. haha.
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You must have missed the posts where we settled that matter. Webcraft indicated he was impressed by my sailing accomplishments.

I doubt 75% of English Channel yachtsmen have covered 1000nm solo miles in the last 3 years the main portion of which was overnight and offshore.

tcm said:
Hint for everyone - it's *always* best avoid the "wild guess" comparisons against other people's boats, wealth, expertise and intelligence on forums. Especially if you're jonjo4...
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You cannot hang around on an internet forum for years and expect anonymity. Pretty sure my 880 sq ft rig would get your bijou transatlantic cruise liner shifting. 13 tons? You don't seem to appreciate how much you and others have let slip over the years.

tcm said:
Heyho, still waiting for jonjo4 to perhaps modify his venomous remarks on the other thread.
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There an update for you to read but your gander is up and so I am ready for the next TCM broadside.
 
cmedsailor said:
PS: Anybody also knows any site that shows the terminology around a sailing boat (you know, pictures and names...)
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I feel for you, a girl friend who was French found it tough to learn all the names of a boat all over again but in English. As for your question, I cant help I am afraid merely suggest to visit a yacht club with a chap who speaks both languages.
 
jonjo4 said:
Pretty sure my sailing experience puts me in the upper quartile of English Channel skippers.
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Is it just me that finds a comment about where they see themselves in some sort of hierarchy of yachtsmen just a little worrying?

It is also worrying when people quote the size of their rig. Why enter peeing competitions? There will always be someone bigger and stronger than you and what are you proving?

And before anyone quotes my profile and claims that I play the same game, hopefully a few will jump to my defense and agree with me that I can muck things up with the best of them.

The sea is a great leveler - especially when it is green and crinkly... Sharing and learning from one another's experiences is one of the joy of these forums. Relax and think before you post?
 
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jonjo4 said:
I doubt 75% of English Channel yachtsmen have covered 1000nm solo miles in the last 3 years the main portion of which was overnight and offshore.
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Er - I know of a few "yachtsmen" who have done double that - but then they don't wander around a forum boasting about being in the "top quartile" ...

Any fool can sail solo - in the right conditions ...
 
jonjo4 said:
"We're"!

That would be you and the silent majority who have got bored of the thread in the past 2 hours?
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Me too.

On the actual subject of this thread, I'm reminded of a quote whose origin I forget, but it goes "words don't have meanings, they have uses."
 
cmedsailor said:
Am I correct to believe that both words mean the same? A boat built to cross oceans?
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I would say that Bluewater is another name for Ocean...

All this ties in nicely with the Recreadional Craft Directive:-

Category Significant Wave Height * Beaufort

A - Ocean Exceeding 4m** Exceeding 8
B - Offshore Up to & including 4m Up to & including 8
C - Inshore Up to & including 2 Up to & including 6
D - Sheltered Up to & including 0.3m Up to & including 4

From: http://www.ceproof.com/recreational_craft_directive.htm
 
john_morris_uk said:
Is it just me that finds a comment about where they see themselves in some sort of hierarchy of yachtsmen just a little worrying?
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The thing that has intrigued me over the past 24 hours is how selective people are with their indignation. Not one admonishment here for TCM who triggered this spat by asserting that people who sail at weekends in piddling cheap boats are not entitled to offer an opinion on the definition of blue water sailing.

For the record in seven years on this forum I had not previously felt the need to quote sailing experience in support of my opinions.

I never cease to be amazed at the capacity of the human animal to commit evil deeds in pursuit of peer group approval.
 
jonjo4 said:
The thing that has intrigued me over the past 24 hours is how selective people are with their indignation. Not one admonishment here for TCM who triggered this spat by asserting that people who sail at weekends in piddling cheap boats are not entitled to offer an opinion on the definition of blue water sailing.

For the record in seven years on this forum I had not previously felt the need to quote sailing experience in support of my opinions.

I never cease to be amazed at the capacity of the human animal to commit evil deeds in pursuit of peer group approval.
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You still here Jonjo? Thought you were going. Calling TCM evil now? This thread has rapidly gone from the sublime to the ridiculous - I bet cmedsailor is wishing he had never started it. Time to chill for a couple of months and come back as jonjo5 I think.

And blue water sailing is when you are sailing in water that looks blue, right?

- W
 
jonjo4 said:
The jury is still out on that, but I was referring to the forum lapdogs inside the TCM sphere of influence.
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Aaah - you mean the TCM clique thing? If you feel left out, send TCM a PM and ask if you can join, I forget what the joining fee is but at the time I thought it was quite reasonable and no funny handshake to remember.

Cheers, Brian.
 
jonjo4 said:
The thing that has intrigued me over the past 24 hours is how selective people are with their indignation. Not one admonishment here for TCM who triggered this spat by asserting that people who sail at weekends in piddling cheap boats are not entitled to offer an opinion on the definition of blue water sailing.

For the record in seven years on this forum I had not previously felt the need to quote sailing experience in support of my opinions.

I never cease to be amazed at the capacity of the human animal to commit evil deeds in pursuit of peer group approval.
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Jonjo

Most forumites don't post comments on spats most of the time, so the truth of the matter is you really do not know who is indignant and who isn't. As you are so astonished lets have a look at your first post on the subject which set the ball rolling and consider following developments.......


"Offshore means passage making within a predictable 48 hour weather forecast period. Bluewater means longterm self sufficiency and being able to cope with the extreme weather that turbulent topical weather systems can throw at you while away from harbour.

Then to complete the picture there is "high latitude" voyaging."

There is no pretence that this delivered as your opinion; it is delivered as a statement of incontrovertible fact but with no supporting evidence or attribution.

To many forumites, particularly those who perhaps disagree with your statement, this will have come across as pompous and inevitably it attracted a flat contradiction from someone, in this case TCM, but most of just sighed and moved quickly on. Some, like little kids in a playground, think "fight fight" and cluster round to watch the action.

If you are going to put yourself on a pedestal as an expert, by making these statements, of course your credentials are going to be challenged but that doesn't mean we agree with TCM's modus operandi either so don't try and turn into some sort of witch hunt and be so scathing of your fellow humans.

Speaking personally, I have found over the years that the real experts don't feel the need to be dogmatic, they are secure in the their knowledge and expertise and are prepared to share it, remaining equally sanguine whether their views are accepted or rejected

Returning to your final comment, many of us here don't give a fig for peer group approval, we read and contribute to the forum because we have a shared interest in the sailing and the sea and enjoy the humour,banter and fellowship. There is no specific interest in you, TCM,or me, so why not move on from a spat that is probably boring everyone who thought they would learn more about the meaning of offshore and bluewater!
 
So we have someone who is doing loads of sailing,
Someone who has done loads of solo sailing
An unfortunate couple who whilst doing loads of sailing got kidnapped

And a 'Big Blue Wobbly Thing' called the Sea..Can Baldrick reconcile all?

And here's my definition.. Offshore- can go there, without the manufacturer 'reasonably' being sued, if sailed sensibly.
Bluewater-Can really, really go there, is built for the job and costs come secondary to that. But will still break if you push it er unsensibly.
 
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