st599
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a pilot jack.
Blue, red or white enseigns ?
- Thread starter Ex Libris
- Start date
Sounds like a pilot jack.
Ex-SolentBoy
Well-Known Member
IMHO this is a great example of the sort of bollo**s we do so well in the UK. I know some people love this tuff, but if ever appointed king my first decree shall be
British Vessel, British national flag.
Otter
Well-Known Member
Or ditch the lot and make your own. Very classy job by SWMBO with our home made nautical crest. Attracts a lot of interest, bizarrely it looks a bit like the ensign for the Vatican navy.
dhobyb
Well-Known Member
I watched a program on SKY last night about the Arctic Convoys, merchant seamen as young as 16 crewed the Ships, I didn't see any Blue ensigns there, we should be proud to fly the Red, as a tribute to the many brave men who gave their lives to keep our country supplied during the world wars.
Oldhairy
Well-Known Member
wotayottie
Well-Known Member
A serving naval officer can fly an undefaced blue ensign on his own boat and any other boat he is in command of. No need to be as club member. Goes back to the days when one of her Maj's ships in a foreign port or part of the empire would know what other vessels in port could be relied on to assist in quelling the natives if necessary
Submariner!
Active Member
This is possibly why the old QE2 flew the blue ensign. Bridge officers were classed as RNR as the QE2 could be assigned for military service (e.g. hospital ship / troop transport)
maxi77
Well-Known Member
Nope, other wise we would have flown blues on the STCs at BRNC when I was there. Only the one Windfall yacht we had left didn't fly a red as she was on the Navy List as a war prize and when an officer was in command she flew a white.
RestlessL
Well-Known Member
maxi77
Well-Known Member
I suspect there were a ships with blues and quite a few with whites too. I happen to be pretty proud to have sailed under all threee colours of ensign at various times.
RestlessL
Well-Known Member
All warrants for blue ensigns were withdrawn for the duration.
Oldhairy
Well-Known Member
Litotes
Well-Known Member
I don't think so. Any use of the blue ensign requires a warrant. It isn't an automatic right for all serving officers.
As far as the blue ensign on merchant vessels is concerned - it has nothing to do with the capacity of the vessel for wartime service. The minimum requirement is that the Master and at least one other officer is a member of the naval reserves.
maxi77
Well-Known Member
But there are other vessels why do fly the blue other than yachts with warrants
wotayottie
Well-Known Member
I think that might have been a special situation - maybe the BRNC didnt want to claim ownership so to speak of a yacht crewed by snotties.
. But it certainly was the case that a merchant ship commanded by an RNR officer and maybe with one other on board could fly a plain blue so I would have thought it was the same for a serving naval officer. Maybe the rules have changed - mI'm going back some 40 years to the time that I was involved on the edges.RestlessL
Well-Known Member
I think that might have been a special situation - maybe the BRNC didnt want to claim ownership so to speak of a yacht crewed by snotties.
The rules, as laid down in QRRN, are as follows:
9153. The Blue Ensign
1. Extent of Usage. The Blue Ensign was reserved for government service vessels when the squadronal system was discontinued in 1864. Since then the use of both plain and defaced Blue Ensigns has developed significantly, and over one hundred defaced Blue Ensigns are in use today. Civilian manned vessels in government service, and in the service of certain organisations that were once publicly owned, are authorised to wear a Blue Ensign as their national colours. They are also entitled to wear a square version of the ensign as a jack, however the use of such jacks is rare except within the Royal Fleet Auxiliary and Royal Maritime Auxiliary Service and new build ships prior to their acceptance within the Royal Navy. Ships wearing Blue Ensigns are to hoist additional ensigns at the masthead on dress ship occasions in the manner described in Para 9140. The predominant organisations whose vessels are authorised to wear Blue Ensigns are detailed below (see also Annex 91B).
2. Blue Ensign - Undefaced. The following vessels may fly an undefaced Blue Ensign
a. Royal Research Ships (RRSs) belonging to the Natural Environment Research Council (NERC). (Authorised in 1969).
b. Merchant vessels whose masters hold a warrant from the Secretary of State for Defence in compliance with sub para 5 below.
c. Yachts belonging to authorised members of privileged yacht clubs in the United Kingdom, Australia, Gibraltar and New Zealand and listed in the Navy List quinquennially. The register of members of United Kingdom clubs is maintained by the Royal Yachting Association, and of Commonwealth clubs by the Commander in Chief Naval Home Command, to whom queries should be directed if Commanding Officers are in doubt about the status of a particular yacht or yacht club.
3. Blue Ensign - Defaced - United Kingdom. The authorities and organisations listed at Annex B to this Section are privileged to use a distinct Blue Ensign defaced with their unique badge or seal. Most of them are within the public service, but some have been privatised since the ensign was granted. In addition there are many defaced Blue Ensigns authorised for qualifying members of privileged yacht clubs within the United Kingdom and Crown Dependencies, and these clubs are listed in the Navy List quinquennially.
4. Blue Ensign - Defaced - Commonwealth and United Kingdom Overseas Territories. Blue Ensigns defaced with the appropriate seal or badge are authorised for use as land flags,
and as ensigns for government service vessels, in the territories listed at Annex 91B. Defaced Blue Ensigns are also authorised for several yacht clubs in these territories especially in Australia, and they are listed in the Navy List quinquennially.
5. Blue Ensign - Undefaced - Use by British Registered Merchant Vessels. Vessels registered on the British Registry of Shipping may wear a plain Blue Ensign providing the master or skipper is in possession of a warrant issued by the Director of Naval Reserves under the authority of the Secretary of State for Defence, and the additional conditions outlined below are fulfilled. The Blue Ensign is to be struck if the officer to whom the warrant was issued relinquishes command, or if the ship or vessel passes into foreign ownership and ceases to be a British ship as defined by the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 (MSA 95).
a. Merchant Vessels on Parts I or IV of the Register. The master must be an officer of the rank of lieutenant RN/RNR or Captain RM/RMR or above in the Royal Fleet Reserve or the maritime forces of a United Kingdom Overseas Territory or Commonwealth country of which Her Majesty is Head of State, or an officer on the Active or Retired Lists of any branch of the maritime reserve forces of these countries or territories.
b. Vessels on Part II of the Register. This part of the Register is reserved for fishing vessels. The skipper must comply with the same criteria as for 5.sub para a. above, however the crew must contain at least four members, each of whom fulfils at least one of the following criteria:-
Royal Naval or Royal Marines reservists or pensioners
Reservists or pensioners from a Commonwealth monarchy or United Kingdom Overseas Territory
Ex-ratings or Royal Marines who have completed twenty years service in the Reserves Members of the Royal Fleet Reserve
c. Vessels on Part III of the Register. This part of the Register is reserved for small
vessels under 24 metres in length, used for recreational purposes only. Such vessels
are to comply with 9153.2.sub para c.
6. Action on Sighting a Merchant Ship Wearing a Blue Ensign. The Commanding Officer of one of HM ships on meeting a vessel wearing the Blue Ensign may send on board a commissioned officer to confirm that the criteria outlined above are being met in full. If it is found that the ship is wearing a Blue Ensign, without authority of a proper warrant, the ensign is to be seized, taken away and forfeited to The Sovereign and the circumstances reported to the Director Naval Reserves, acting on behalf of the Commander in Chief Naval Home Command, who maintains the list of persons authorised to hold such warrants. However, if it is found that, despite the warrant being sighted, the ship is failing to comply with the criteria in some other particular, the ensign is not to be seized but the circumstances are to be reported to the the Director Naval Reserves (See also 9153.sub para 5).
9154. Red Ensign
1. The Red Ensign was reserved for use by the merchant marine and civilian shipping not authorised to wear other national colours, following the disestablishment of the squadronal system in 1864. Since then, the use of the Red Ensign has developed significantly and there are over thirty defaced versions of this ensign authorised for use today.
2. Red Ensign - Undefaced. The Red Ensign without any defacement or modification is the proper colours for all commercial ships and private vessels and craft listed on the British registry of shipping, or which would be placed on that register if they were to be registered. Civil vessels belonging to the Crown Dependency of Jersey and to certain United Kingdom Overseas Territories also wear this ensign as their proper colours.
3. Red Ensign - Defaced - United Kingdom. Each of the organisations listed at Annex 91B is privileged to use a distinct Red Ensign defaced with its unique badge or seal. All of these organisations are within the wider public sector. In addition, there are a number of defaced Red Ensigns authorised for qualifying members of privileged yacht clubs; these clubs are listed quinquennially in the Navy List.
maxi77
Well-Known Member
I think that might have been a special situation - maybe the BRNC didnt want to claim ownership so to speak of a yacht crewed by snotties.
I am actually going back further, hence the reference to the Windfall yacht. It is always surprising those who wish to suggest that some ones real life experience is incorrent. For the Windfall yacht it required a a staff officer rather than an officer under training for the white to be flown, if the other yachts had been able to fly blues then when commanded by such an officer they would have done so. Now RestlessL has very kindly copied the regulations in detail for you please read them and try better next time.
Tidewaiter2
Well-Known Member
Is that what we used to refer to as a 'Harbour Jack' back in the 1960's?
genuine terminology check, not a wind up.
Ex Libris
New Member
My post are now published (in less than 3 days) so...Big thanks to everyone for these clarifications. I (almost) understand now.
We are still happy to fly the Hong Kong flag when going offshore...kindda little piece of home we carry with us. We have designed also our own "battle Flag", which we it fly when moored or before and after racing. Not much of a few century tradition, but well..
We are still happy to fly the Hong Kong flag when going offshore...kindda little piece of home we carry with us. We have designed also our own "battle Flag", which we it fly when moored or before and after racing. Not much of a few century tradition, but well..
Tranona
Well-Known Member
The main purpose of the ensign is actually to indicate the state of registration of the boat when in international waters or visiting a foreign port. However people ascribe other meanings that suit their view of the world or are derived from historic associations which are no longer relevant to that main purpose.