blue ensign

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We fly a defaced blue, ours with crossed swords, because it shows the Association we belong to.[ QUOTE ]


Even with a choice of blue ensigns (yes!) I stick with the good old red duster all the time. Why? 'cos the Warrants advise me to hide them when going foreign. Prancing around hoisting a courtesy flag, a Q flag AND remembering to swop the rag at the back too? Can't be bothered.

To digress, here's a quirk of flag etiquette more often observed in the breach:

As a member of the local club, when visiting or attending one of their rallies you should flytheir burgee in the superior position, with associated ensign, NOT the privileged one from some other national club or association.

Think about it!
 
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"Could it be a feeling that the wearers of blue ensigns wish to set themselves above, or apart from others? "

Don't confuse matters. I am entitled to wear a Blue Ensign by Warrant - I have done something in my life that enables me to do this. I used to be in the Merchant Navy and was prouud of the Red Ensign then and I am proud of my Blue Ensign now.

Ensign History all goes back to the RN anyway with the Admirals of the White (senior Admiral), Blue and Red (most Junior). Warships (and the Royal Yacht Squadron) kept the White Ensign, Governement vessels (RFA, Customs etc) adopted the Blue Ensign and the Merchnat Navy adopted the Red Ensign. Following your argument, "pleasure craft" are NOT commercial vessels and should not therefore fly a Red Ensign, but have something else entirely.

I am not trying to set myself apart from others. I am proud of my ensign and would be equally proud to wear the Red Ensign again. The fact is, I am entitled to wear a Blue Ensign - so I do. I don't think it matters and it is not snobbery. If anything, those that object are suffering (I would humbly suggest) from a form of inverted snobbery! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Let's all just live and let live - please.

Happy boating
C38

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I am not arguing one way or another, I simply offered it up as a possible explanation as to why some people are a bit anti.

Personally I couldn't care less, and am bemused by those who seem to think it is all so important.
 
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I'm not really fussed what ensign I fly (wear?) I've been entitled to defaced red, defaced and undefaced blue and now just (?) the red. I do wonder what's to stop me flying (wearing?) one I'm not entitled to, though.

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A serving RN officer, in full dress uniform and wearing sword, will come aboard and ask for your warrant (supposedly from the Sec of State) and, if you can't produce it, remove said ensign.

Additionally, if you're in UK territorial waters I believe you can be fined.
 
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And, no. You won't have to be squeaky clean. Unless, of course, you care about the opinions of the silly, the childish and the inverted snobs. But you might want to try to stick to decent standards of seamanship and behaviour. Terrible, isn't it? What a burden.

Many such people go on to express their pride in the red ensign, even though they have not, themselves, endured the Arctic convoys or other hardships whence this pride is derived. If they had a better understanding of the reasons for the blue ensign privileges granted to certain clubs they might think twice about their attitudes to the wearers of blue ensigns.

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Have difficulty understanding your point here .... is it that you consider only those who sailed WW2 should be proud of the Ensign ?

As to seamanship etc. - whatever ensign - there are plenty examples of those who need to learn some.

Personally - if someone wants to fly Blue - so what, if they can then let them. UK in fact is not only country that has defaced and "privilege" ensigns. But they just get on and fly them without all this cr*p.
 
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Have difficulty understanding your point here .... is it that you consider only those who sailed WW2 should be proud of the Ensign ?


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No. My point is that I have often seen people express pride in the historical associations of their red ensigns ("if it was good enough for them it is good enough for me" etc.) in the same posts in which they express scorn for those who choose to wear a blue ensign. Apart from former sevicemen and women, neither side has generally done anything personally to justify that pride, but if people want history, let them learn both sides.

History has given us three maritime ensigns, used for different purposes. Each has its legitimate use and that's all there is to it.

The whole thing is a ridiculous storm in a teacup. What reflects badly on this nation is not that some yachtsmen should wear blue ensigns, but that some who do not should get in such a lather about it.
 
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Could it be a feeling that the wearers of blue ensigns wish to set themselves above, or apart from others?

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Those who have such feelings are burdened with a sad chip on their shoulders. They should find something more important to worry about. Colregs, for example, or which anchor they should buy. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
I found this thread most interesting and informative. It has also made me thnk that it seems that RN personnel are well served but there doesn't appear to be any equivalent for those from the MN - is that because the vessels they have served on wear the red ensign?
 
i have just logged on to find a lot of posts on my subject!!! just to confuse the previous post i am in the RFA which is merchant shipping as we still come under fire from the mca and lloyds, yet we fly the blue ensign with an anchor. dont ask me why or how, like i have said in previous post, im in the engine room, not on the bridge licking windows!
 
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i have just logged on to find a lot of posts on my subject!!! just to confuse the previous post i am in the RFA which is merchant shipping as we still come under fire from the mca and lloyds, yet we fly the blue ensign with an anchor. dont ask me why or how, like i have said in previous post, im in the engine room, not on the bridge licking windows!

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Oh they likes a good chunter about ensigns, and colregs, and anchors, and life jackets, and life rafts, and .............

Go down for a visit to the lounge if you want to see champion chunterers in action! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

PS. If you do go to the lounge, body armour might be a good idea. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
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Most countries have one maritime flag which everyone can use and some like USA are proud simply to fly the national flag. Here in Scotland you get all sorts of variations on the saltire but the English seem to have a particular affinity for displaying differences of rank or class.

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I think you are dead right on both counts: it is a class thing and it is very, very english.
 
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I think you are dead right on both counts: it is a class thing and it is very, very english.

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Ah, that'll be why, from the list quoted above, there are 9 Australian, 2 New Zealand, 4 Services, 1 Welsh, 5 Scottish and 11 English Clubs with the undefaced Blue Ensign privilege. Perhaps it's more of a throwback to colonial days?
 
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Three? Four at least. My latest scottish ensign came in the post yesterday.

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But does it look like this?
scotblue.jpg
 
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I think you are dead right on both counts: it is a class thing and it is very, very english.

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So you've never seen a Dutch or South African or American privileged ensign then? Maybe you should get out more! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
"privileged ensign"

Hmmmmmm, maybe that is what is at the core of this ensign contratemps?

"Privileged" is not something people sit easy with these days, it was different in the days before WW2. Everybody knew their place, well that was the theory!

Using phrases like "privileged ensign" just give people the wrong idea, or is it the right idea?

Perhaps the way to resolve the issue is to ban the wearing of all ensigns other than the red duster for leasure craft.

That of course would include all those silly Cornish / Welsh / Scottish etc. flags.

I have seen it said that sailing is a great social leveler, encompassing as it does all stratas of society, well maybe it levels some more than others?

Like I said before, couldn't care less myself, you can wear you wifes knickers if you want /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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This should be good for a load of subjective rants from hoi polloi.

You need a warrant to fly it - usually the issuing of a warrant has been handed down to the club/association, membership of which entitles you to fly the blue.

Why not try the RNSA?

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My warrant application had to be considered by the Committee of the club, and ndorsed by the RYA.
I got my warrant due to a previously ill informed post on these forums making wild and unsubstantiated claims about the behaviour and attitudes of boat owners with blue ensigns, and those of red.

Its all a load of tosh.


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Are there no Lancs or Yorks Nationalists yet? I think a red or white rose would look pretty in the corner of a blue or red rag. Certainly much more attractive than the basic crosses used by most petty Nationalists. Perhaps, as I was born in Cheshire (now Merseyside), I should have a Wheatsheaf in the corner of a red rag? Pity none of these county flags have any international standing. Bit like flying the Confederate flag to display your political leanings.

BTW, I joined my local club partly because I liked the idea of flying the defaced blue. My old Nauticalia pink ensign needed replacing anyway, & Searush has all blue accessories & paint trim. Oh, and the club is the oldest in Wales & the Clubhouse is almost 700 years old with magnificent views across the Straits & excellent Guinness. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
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"privileged ensign"

Hmmmmmm, maybe that is what is at the core of this ensign contratemps?



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Quite possibly. Red rag to certain bulls. Silly bulls.

Poor old wotisname of the RFA, busy keeping the great funnel line operational. He's clearly nothing but a hopeless English snob. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Here's me with my red ensign, born and educated in Scotland, defending the blues and the English. But what I'm really defending is thought versus knee jerk and goodwill amongst sailors versus mindless prejudice.
 
"mindless prejudice."

Erm this is the YBW forums you know.....do you really expect there not to be mindless prejudice??

Sailing is still a snobs haven, always was and always will be.

Just have to live with it I'm afraid, and yes it goes both ways. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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