Blue Diesel

[Red]

Just as you thought things were settling down - re: red diesel and the threat of loosing it..............along comes blue diesel. We have all by now heard of the difficulties of putting white diesel in red diesel fuel pumps and tanks - the dye remains in the tanks so colours white diesel red. Retailers would have to replace the whole system to keep white diesel white. Just across the channel they already have blue diesel sold only to commercial users at a much lower rate than white and I wonder how long it will be until we see the new fuel over here.

 

[SilverTT]

My home marina reckon boats can't use white diesel because they contain part biofuels ( which will damage older engines ). I told him what a load of B0110cks. But he was adamaint.
I don't know but does anybody know.

 

[Nigelhg]

They've been using green diesel in R.O.I for years, if they had wanted to introduce a different colour in the UK they probably would have done so by now.

 

[dkm]

I've used white in KAD300's with no problems. Checked with VP tech guys beforehand and they say no problem. Difference in sulphur content and something else I can't remember but the bottom line is thats its OK

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Refueler]

[ QUOTE ]
My home marina reckon boats can't use white diesel because they contain part biofuels ( which will damage older engines ). I told him what a load of B0110cks. But he was adamaint.
I don't know but does anybody know.

[/ QUOTE ]

I may know a little about it. White or Road Diesel may contain up to 5% BioF and still be classed EN590 ULSD for road use. Higher than 5% and it must be stated and sold as a Bio X% grade. That is where the B10 ... B15 etc. names come from.

My company blends fuels for EU market and elsewhere - BioF is in some but not all. For the marine and non road market - as long as the fuel meets the BS spec - it can contain any component.

My Perkins 4-107 of vintage years runs quite happily on the cr*p I have left over from lab testing / blending etc. That includes Furnace Oil, Heating Oil, BioF pure, ULSD pure, 0.2% base gasoil ... and all blends in between.

Simply put ? They are talking #@$%^&*(

IMHO of course.

 

[hlb]

Thats bollox. Used to swap from red to white quite often. Anyway, customs can tell if theres just a bit of red in and wont bother you if a good enough excuse.

 

[John100156]

I saw a documentary recently that mentioned something like high grade diesel being produced from Synchgas(?) a by-product of burning bio-matter in a special furnace where the oil is produced from the constituents of the flue gas. A German outfit as I recall - do you know anything about this? Supposed to reduce carbon emissions significantly?

 

[A_8]

We've had white diesel in Sweden for quite some years now and white per say have not been a problem, smokes a lot less actually.
However white with bio additives sitting in tanks for months with a bit of water have been and still is a major problem. Apparently it is a great mix for the diesel bug to prosper with clogged filters and engine failures as a consequence.
Many have learned this by now and some marinas specifically state they are using white without any bio additives.

Cheers/

 

[Refueler]

[ QUOTE ]
I saw a documentary recently that mentioned something like high grade diesel being produced from Synchgas(?) a by-product of burning bio-matter in a special furnace where the oil is produced from the constituents of the flue gas. A German outfit as I recall - do you know anything about this? Supposed to reduce carbon emissions significantly?

[/ QUOTE ]

No - straight answer /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

There are many crack-pots out there who think they have the answer to alternative fuels. Emphasis on Crack-pots.

Look at the FAME (BioF) fiasco. And dare I mention the stupidest DIY - Chip Oil !!

 

[Refueler]

[ QUOTE ]
We've had white diesel in Sweden for quite some years now and white per say have not been a problem, smokes a lot less actually.
However white with bio additives sitting in tanks for months with a bit of water have been and still is a major problem. Apparently it is a great mix for the diesel bug to prosper with clogged filters and engine failures as a consequence.
Many have learned this by now and some marinas specifically state they are using white without any bio additives.

Cheers/

[/ QUOTE ]

Interested to know how they know no Bio in it ? EN590 which is standard in Sweden as well as EU other is permitted 5% without declaration. OK traders will know and many would blend into stocks - retailers would be buying ex stock. Based on EN590 analysis. To specify FAME test is expensive and difficult.

 

[A_8]

That figures, I had a feeling it might be more of a sales pitch then real.
I've seen a few adding other additives to keep the diselbug in control.
Personally and when I fill up from people I don't know keeps their diesel fresh and clean I use a filler filter that shut the flow if there is water och stuff in the diesel. Its a bit messy but it feels good to know the stuff in my tanks is clean.

 

[ms1]

"My home marina reckon boats can't use white diesel because they contain part biofuels "
_________________________________________________________________________

I think this is staggering from a marine professional. It's no wonder we all look to each other for information.

 

[John100156]

No it is real technology and not a gimmick - you will hear a lot more about it in future, of course I got the spelling wrong its Syngas - see the following article and Google!:

http://aiche.confex.com/aiche/2008/techprogram/S7307.HTM

 

[Refueler]

[ QUOTE ]
No it is real technology and not a gimmick - you will hear a lot more about it in future, of course I got the spelling wrong its Syngas - see the following article and Google!:

http://aiche.confex.com/aiche/2008/techprogram/S7307.HTM

[/ QUOTE ]

Good ol' America.

I don't doubt that various processes will be put forward, and I know many already have been. But you also have to appreciate the costs and development needed for many of these. Not only that - can they meet demand or is it just a support / top-up role.
Many ideas come about due to uncertainty of fuel pricing or supply. Look at the dates in the link you gave - we were looking at massive pricing on a scale never imagined. Now what ? Pricing is so low that it's now reversed. Ships slow steaming because loaded price vs discharge pricing is out of balance, stocks not wanted, traders cannot get funding out of merchant banks because of it.

Alternatives are fine - but they must relate to the market they are in. Green issues always fall back when cost comes in. And who says they are better. Many of the alternatives use processes that are highly dangerous, environmentally risky etc.

I stand and watch. I refuse to fall for a lot of the hype and rubbish some of the committees expound.

 

[John100156]

Yes - I share many of your views in this regard.

Must keep an eye on these new(ish) technologies though, I am heavilly involved in a Construction project involving Fuel Cell's powering a block of flats/houses in Central London for Imperial College. At the planning stages at present. Many FC systems currently in development but we need to give it at least another year I think before they become technically and economically sustainable/viable and there are many aspects of new technologies that one needs to give very careful consideration to!

 

[oldgit]

" Furnace Oil, Heating Oil, BioF pure, ULSD pure, 0.2% base gasoil ... and all blends in between."

I have a chum who is something to do with EDF on the high tension side of things who has been burning old cable cooling oil 50%/50% in his oil fired central heating furnace.
Seems to keep him warm very cheaply.

 

[Refueler]

[ QUOTE ]
" Furnace Oil, Heating Oil, BioF pure, ULSD pure, 0.2% base gasoil ... and all blends in between."

I have a chum who is something to do with EDF on the high tension side of things who has been burning old cable cooling oil 50%/50% in his oil fired central heating furnace.
Seems to keep him warm very cheaply.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cable cooling oil may have been based on a kerosine blend. Sounds highly dangerous but true. Not only for cooling, but when I was "driving" seismic boats (I worked in same company as a dear departed Tome) we used Kerosine to pressurise the towed cables.

So in fact your pal using old cable oil is not so far of the scale.