Blue Angel (Canados 70s) Rebuild thread

[BartW]

As for the price of the power-bim, about £10k afaik, wait till you see the price of the electric slider mechanism from Opacmare

OK then the price for the gliding system is exactly the price of two power bim's
just got the quote today in my mailbox !

not cheap but not telephone numbers either,

I think I can make the hardtop for a total cost of less then 30K euro,
the project appears more feaseable then ever before, or not ?

 

[BartW]

Belgians don't play rugby

agree, but we have other quality's

 

[BartW]

Spending the summer in an island of the island, with fresh fish sources available anytime, and last but not least having both smwbo and various friends who are all damn good at cooking, well, it's an addictive combination...

I hope you realise how you're spoiled

 

[BartW]

if you really prefer the HT to the bimini, you might as well get rid of the sliding mechanism altogether.
I mean, after all BA has a huge space at her bow for sunbathing, also while cruising.

E's argument against the hardtop, is the shadow from the frame, when she's sunbathing upstairs,
my argument of using the big sunbed on the bow she doesn't accept, as she prefers to be on top

yes technically its all challenging with the reliability of the gliding system, salt spray and all that,
but I ussume, as quite a few reputated builders use this, that it can't be too bad.

a sun pad on the hardtop, is a bit over the top imo.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Also Mike, when blimmin Top Gear turn up to film for an afternoon, as they do, the chopper pilot asks you to fold the bimini back so he can video the flybridge

I would have thought with a helicoptor hovering a few feet above it, the bimini would have detached itself of its own accord without recourse to a power mechanism

 

[Pinnacle]

my argument of using the big sunbed on the bow she doesn't accept, as she prefers to be on top.

Steady on Bart.....this is a family Forum!

 

[MapisM]

I hope you realise how you're spoiled

Well, you never heard me complaining, did you?

a sun pad on the hardtop, is a bit over the top imo.

Yep, TBH I wouldn't qualify the usage I mentioned as a proper sun pad.
Even with a solid HT, climbing up there is not for the fainthearted, cause it takes a vertical ladder and there's no protection - that's why I specified "while moored", and I should have added "with care".
But the view is indeed fantastic, and it COULD be used for the odd sunbathing out of sight.
Or also as a diving platform, for those who don't mind the distance from the water...
Below is a pic taken while standing on such raised position, just to give the idea - aside from showing also some solid HT examples.

 

[MapisM]

not cheap but not telephone numbers either

Agreed, I expected more. Somewhere around three, rather than just two power biminis.
Probably the boat equipment suppliers are beginning to understand that if they want to survive they must forget the good old days when a 500% margin was normal...

 

[BartW]

Here is an update of the works that we did this winter on Blue angel,
not the major upgrades as the years before, but nevertheless many small things to manage and organize.
Thanks for all the tips and advice we got along the road, and during the works.

One major task during the lift out, was repairing the damaged hi lo platform,
taking the lifting arms appart , and replacing the main housings by new we got under warranty from HB

Until the end of the season, We had a temporary solution with G-clamps holding the system together

On this pic you can see how the top plate was lifted.

Barnacle growth inside

Lifting cylinder out, I got some hose plugs to keep the hydraulic hoses closed for dirt, and keep clean oil inside.

Lifting cylinders back in place, in the new housing
the housings are now reinforced with a extra SS plate holding the top plate which you can see on this pic.
HB will do this mod on all new systems

Lifting arms

All back in position:

closeups of the damaged housings

Here you can see that the welding’s were very poor, or too much grinded so that no welding steel was left

So these weldings came loosing when the platform was pushed upwards, when it was just above water level, during recovering divers in a swell.


We have placed extra transversal SS Tubes underneath the existing, to make the platform more “stiff”.
When loaded with 6 or 8 divers, the platform was bending a bit too much to my taste
Here you can see these tubes, we have put some extra “pre-pressure “ on the construction,
you can see that the gap between a pair of tubes in middle is more then on the ends.

Also note the platform steps which are hidden under the small fixed platform.



As suggested by a few mates on here, we could improve the “stiffness” of the platform, by reinforcing the transom where the platform system is mounted.
The vertical stringer on the trasom, right behind the platform mounting is only good for pushing forces, not for pulling forces on the system,
so a quick and easy solution, just a SS wire tensioned between the upper platform bolt, and the last frame of the hull already made a good improvement on stiffness.

The bench / shelf back in place,
in this pic you can see the extra wooden pole we placed underneath the passerel housing,
this pole rests on a frame, and is supporting the weight from the new F/B overhang poles in the cockpit. There is a second pole on the other side.

And note the 2 tender shocks, in the upper left corner of the pic, nicely stored inside the utility room.
And the air pressure hose for filling scuba tanks.

 

[BartW]

When the boat was out,
We had her cleaned, antifoiled, hull polished, ..
Swmbo varnished the gunwale capping
The painter re-painted that dark line just above water level, and made a correction,
as the boat with all these stern additions, is now 8cm deeper in the water at the stern.

We also had a new sun cover over the front windows,(dark silver grey) the old one was faded and damaged during strong winds.

We made a few extra side deck openings, for quick water exits, and treated them inside with epoxy

And swmbo re- painted the anchor chain indications

The NO swimming label

Here the boat goes back in the water,
Look at the cockpit lights, I took out the 8 lights above the cockpit table, and put these extra above the side decks (doubled them) because they are LED bulbs, no issue with power,
and for having more openings for getting my hand in these side flybridge beams,
and finally because more lights on the side deck's looks nicer
Above the cockpit table I have placed 8 x new Quick marine Teckla led lights, (similar model as the original Canados) not so pleased with these, but that’s another story.

The painter sugested to try Velox on the props, he had good experience, will see after one season,

He also repaired a hull/gunwale damage around the SB Stern fairlead that was caused from forces on the ropes during a strong mistral in Toulon.
You can see that the transom on the upper SB side is slightly brighter (brandnew spray painted)

I still don’t know the exact weight of the boat, the crane guy told me that his figures are not accurate,
When lifting out he claimed 50 Tons, when lifting back in he claimed a bit more then 40 Tons ????

This is the only pic I have from our Anchor Camera, Yes !?!
Just underneath the anchor light, there was a small black box, that used to be a loadspeaker in the old day’s.
In exactly this position we fitted that black connection box, with a camera mounted underneath.
I Didn’t use it yet, but so far the positions seems to be OK.

The lift out was in Port Corbières west of Marseille.
The interesting thing in this marina is that they have a travellift and you’re allowed to organize the work yourselves,
its not a yard, but there are a few service suppliers in the marine,
I’ve got all the works organized from people outside (Belgium friends, and a local French painter...)

The marine is at 15min drive from Marseille airport, so I’m a very frequent Ryanair customer now, and love to travel with them,
always simple and fast. I always’s book a seat on first row, for leg space, and quickly getting in and out the airplane.

This pic was taken right before landing, at that moment Blue Angel is where the arrow points.

Then some works inside:

Some part of our maindeck inside floor was carpet, but in this very busy are:, galley entrance, day toilet, side entrance , steps to flybridge,
This carpet became durty and used.
Instead of putting new carpet, we preferred wood; much more easy to keep clean and more elegant on the main deck.
Only one solution, placing the same nice solid wood as in our saloon.
after investigation of a few samples taken from behind a saloon bench, This turned out to be solid teak planks.
So we made exactly the same planks for the remaining inside maindeck floor (cabins are still carpet)

14mm thick 15cm wide solid teak planks.
here the planks are just placed, not varnished yet.

Under the Copilote table

You can see some plank saw kerfs are in strange positions,
this is to allow to take up parts of the floor to have acces to some cable trays

Lower helm floor

Also the carpet on the FB stairs was replaced by solid teak planks.
To avoid a slippery surface, (guests going up with wet feet) we made fine grooves in the top surface.

Also in the galley we removed the prefab parket floor that we put in there 2 years ago, and placed the solid teak planks

Right when we arrived in Porte Montengro, swmbo was able to put the last layer of Epiphanes satin varnish on the teak floor,
and I can assure you that the floor looks absolutely perfect, slightly better then the original floor in the saloon which we already liked so much.
Pics of varnished teak floor will come later.


Other works in the galley we did:

Replacing the gas oven, by a nice big electric oven

And a new big fridge and freezer

This is a new shelf, for storing and quickly finding: my boat papers, logbook, boat safety plans, and dive books,
And a few romantic novels from E

Also look at the ceiling, this area above the carpet floor used to be sherry wood vineered planks, we covered them with silver grey fabric (with acoustic properties),
the same fabric we have used now all over inside the boat (still 2 rooms todo) forgot to make pics from the new ceilings…

 

[BartW]

And zillions of small jobs:

During my navigation to Corbières, suddenly the autopilot didn’t work anymore,
The rudder indicator on the AP display was completely on one side,
Inspection of the rudder position sensor, revealed the problem, that the ball joint on the conneting rod, was disconnected by corrosion and wear and tear and vibration.

Here the rod with 2 new SS balljoint back in place

To MapisM: The old ball joint had a lot of "play" on the AP rudder position sensor,
I hoped that this repair would solve my AP slalom behaviour,
but unfortunately I was not able to cure this completely. I need you back onboard ! ;-)


In summer we have had a similar thing happening with a throttle rod on one engine,
This was cured temporarily with a ty-rap, and now correctly repaired with a new SS ball joint

And this was a tricky / lucky one

When doing the oil and impellors change on my genny’s, my friend noticed that on one genny, the belt on the raw water pump was loose.
After checking closely we noticed that this pully was very loose, and the center hole was completely warn out, and instead of a large round opening, this should be a small key hole opening !

So the genny has been running for a while without rawwater cooling, we were extremely lucky that no more damage has happened to the Yanmar engine.
10euro for a new pulley and this was fixed !
We also know why this happened;
by moving stuff in the E/R previous winter / summer, we pushed the genny cover so that this was touching the pully and or this belt.
All back correct in place now.


We had new sunbrella upholstery on the helm seat upstairs
this is the new fabric / collor for all FB funiture

And had a second bench made, exactly the same size like the old,

this was a temporarily alluminium hinge, we have now a custom made copy of the old SS hinge

Temporarily acrow studs, now we have some nice 60mm diam SS poles installed,made in Rome, pics come later.

In Rome we had a complete inspection and revision of the automatic ER fire extinguishing /air vent / fuel closing system

Other items we did but no pics yet:
- New tender
- and New bigger invertors, (Victron 5KW Quatro)

we used to have 2 x 3000W Victron Invertors, to run our electric stabs from the engine alternators. (without genny)
Every now and then, f.e. when engines at idle, boat freefloating, stabs in “Anchor” mode, (fe while waiting for entry in a marina)
The stabs have to work hard, and the peak power of the stabs, was just too high for the invertor,
stabs go in error and need to be reset, and we have to fire up the genny.
never happened during navigation, forces /peak power is lower
So we decided to upgrade to the 5KW.
And now we had the opportunity to choose the “quatro" type, which enables to connect the genny AND the shore power to the Victron boxes,
No manual switching anymore.

The peak power problem with the stabs is now completely cured. (fully tested during our Rome - Montenegro trip)
Still need to do some electric rewiring so that I can use the old relay selecting switches (shore or genny power)
as a emergency, Invertor bypass switch. (just for backup).

All 230V cirquits on the boat are now permanently on a invertor, (but can be bypassed)
this enables us to use the dishwasher, washing machine, water maker, oven,…… during navigation, without the genny running.
Other features of my invertors:
- Limit the current that I take from shore, (and add battery power when needed)
- The second invertor is in the airco cirquit, can be disconnected from the main, and connected to a second shore connection
and can be used as a extra power from battery for starting the airco compressor when electric shore supply is limited to 16a fe.
(this second shore power connection switches automatic when 2nd 230V supply is hot)

I had also installed two victron battery monitors and made a small box with a few relays and time relays for automatic genny starting,
going to be helpfull during night anchorages, (the relays still need to be connected)

thats it for now,
so more pics will come later

 

[AndieMac]

Well done Bart, really enjoyed reading that very informative post. What a transformation you have done to this fine ship.

Of course you also have some great detail to offer a potential purchaser if and when you decide to sell her.

Hope you have a great season ahead.

 

[Nick_H]

Great stuff Bart. I said once before that you and Blue Angel were lucky to have found each other. After reading all that, I hope the boat is giving as much to the relationship as you are!

I used Velox Plus for the last year on the props, and its definitely the best ting i've tried so far, almost no fouling.

 

[rafiki_]

Yes, thanks for the update Bart, A very interesting mix of upgrade and rectification.

 

[MapisM]

Great stuff Bart. I said once before that you and Blue Angel were lucky to have found each other. After reading all that, I hope the boat is giving as much to the relationship as you are!

I used Velox Plus for the last year on the props, and its definitely the best ting i've tried so far, almost no fouling.

I must have missed the first time you said that, but that's by far the best summary of the BartW+BA love story.

Also, +1 on Velox Plus.
My yard has used it for more years than I can remember, also on commercial (fishing, coast guard and custom) boats, and afaik it's the best stuff for u/w gear.
Actually, it didn't last equally well every season, but I tend to believe it's more a matter of how well it was applied, than anything else.

Bart, your "fully transparent" electrical setup is very interesting - and pretty unique, AFAIK: never heard of such installation in any boat, no matter how big/new.
My 2 ways battery charger is now almost 20 years old, and even if it still works flawlessly, I think it wouldn't be a waste of money to replace it next winter, before pushing my luck and set the boat on fire... . Btw, It's more than likely that I'll need to replace also the service batteries by then.
So, the idea of fitting that Victron Quattro thing instead, and have also a continuous AC supply (which I don't have ATM, in fact all fridges are 24V dc) sounds very interesting.
Also, I guess I could do with just one of them, rather than two as you have on BA (maybe leaving just the A/C separately connected as "dock only").
I for one would be interested to hear more details (possibly also on costs, via email if you prefer), and/or see the electrical scheme, if you've got one.

That aside, I just love those teak floor planks. That's the kind of stuff you would expect to find on a Royal Huisman yacht - 'nuff said...

 

[Pinnacle]

Bart

Great story! E seems to be getting very proficient at all this varnishing stuff. If you think she could do with a bit more practice just let me know - our floor boards could do with the "E" treatment!

The original stainless hi-lo brackets really did look to be in poor shape. Not a good design, but the new ones look much more like they will take all of the forces involved. I think adding the additional strengthening pieces under the platform was a very good idea. 6 divers in all their kit must weigh quite a lot.

Best wishes for your time in PM, S and I hope you have a great season.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Very interesting report, Bart. You may remember that I fitted a Victron Multiplus to my last boat just for the reason you mention - to limit the current draw from shorepower when starting up the aircon and I was v pleased with it's performance once it had been installed properly and I'd learnt how to use it! AFAIK the Quattro is a more sophisticated unit than the Multiplus. One time with our boat we went out to dinner leaving the aircon running. Some time during the evening, the shorepower failed which meant that the Multiplus then tried to run the aircon from the batteries with the inevitable result that the batteries were flat when we arrived back after dinner. Does the Quattro unit get around this problem by automatically starting up the gennie if the shorepower fails or is this what your 'small box' is for?
Also interested to hear that you can run the CMC stabs via the Quattro. Does this mean you can run the stabs at anchor from the Quattro inverter only for a limited period and how long for? Also did you have to upgrade the engine alternators when you fitted the Quattros as they allow more current to be taken from the batteries than your previous inverters?

 

[Anders_P42]

Very interesting report, Bart. You may remember that I fitted a Victron Multiplus to my last boat just for the reason you mention - to limit the current draw from shorepower when starting up the aircon and I was v pleased with it's performance once it had been installed properly and I'd learnt how to use it! AFAIK the Quattro is a more sophisticated unit than the Multiplus. One time with our boat we went out to dinner leaving the aircon running. Some time during the evening, the shorepower failed which meant that the Multiplus then tried to run the aircon from the batteries with the inevitable result that the batteries were flat when we arrived back after dinner. Does the Quattro unit get around this problem by automatically starting up the gennie if the shorepower fails or is this what your 'small box' is for?
Also interested to hear that you can run the CMC stabs via the Quattro. Does this mean you can run the stabs at anchor from the Quattro inverter only for a limited period and how long for? Also did you have to upgrade the engine alternators when you fitted the Quattros as they allow more current to be taken from the batteries than your previous inverters?

The Multiplus has a programmable relay output that can be used to start gennie.

 

[BartW]

@ NickH and MapisM,

Yes it is a two way love affair, and luckily very often a threesome 


@Deleted User

The Victron Multiplus and Quatro are nearly the same,
The Multiplus has 1 AC input, and 2 AC outputs,
The Quatro has 2 AC input and 2 AC output;
One input for shore power and One extra input for the genny,
One Output is the invertor output or supply from shore or genny or the sum of both
The Other output is only active when there is AC Voltage on one of the inputs, for connecting MapisM airco fe. (appliances that you never want to switch on when no AC available.)


Both units have a programmable relay, fe for alarm, or switching on a genny

BUT,

this is not ideal, as this is based on the DC voltage of the battery’s, and that’s a very bad indicator of the battery ‘s charge status.
You better install a battery monitor (such as BMV600), this measures the current in and out the battery’s (via a shunt), and calculates the battery charge permanently.
The unit has a “learning” mode. This unit can also produce a alarm or has a relay for switching on a genny.
My interface box has a few relays and timers, so that when the alarm relay goes on, the interface produces 5 attemps of firing one genny, and then stops, or when the genny is running, also stops firing.


Regarding your airco empty’ed the battery’s when AC supply failed,

Multiplus and Quatro can do exactly the same,
1) The units can be programmed that they switch off when battery voltage goes below fe ..12,3V , probably this Voltage was set too low in your unit (programming is done with dip switches inside or connecting a laptop)
2) The units can start a genny in such a situation, but better use the battery monitor for that as explained above.
3) The On-Off switch of these units has 3 positions,
INVERTOR – OFF – CHARGE ONLY, the latter position is typically for when you’re away from the boat for a long time, that loads on the invertor output are switched off when no AC power available, the loads can’t empty your battery’s through the invertor.

Regarding the stabs running on battery’s, actually since the upgrade they CAN, but never tested how long. With the 3Kw Invertors, the stabs went quickly in error, from 230V supply interruptions.
But since the installation of new 5Kw invertors, I didn’t try yet how long the stabs can work on battery’s only

Good question about the alternators,
No we never changed the alternators, they area rated 160Amps each iirc, and that has proven to be more than enough for the average power consumption from the stabs during navigation. (and even a dishwasher running simultaneously) The battery’s take care of the peaks.
As far as I know, the alternators are self regulating, never give more amps then rated, whatever load is on the battery’s. I’m curious how long they will last in these circomstances, the temperature around them is very hot, and they are loaded now much more and much longer than they use to be in the past.

Regarding MapisM question to charge two banks from one Victron unit,
There are several solutions for that, (distributor units), but the most common solution offered by victron is using a Cyrix Combiner,
This is a relay with integrated controller, which switches two battery banks in parallel under certain conditions. I don’t have this in BA but have that in the Karnic.
Conditions are (ao)
- One bank should have a voltage of at least 13,0V (battery’s are charged)
- No bank is less then 12,0V (battery’s might be broken, or there might be a short cirq.)


I realize that all this info, and also the usage (from experience) of such a unit on your boat, can make the electric supply complicated for the average boater.
You always’s have to “think” before, and “know” what you are doing,
I permanently try to improve my installation, and to make it as transparent, or automated, or fool proof as possible. Swmbo is my test person ;-)
I'll post a chematic diagram later.

Here is a rough indication on the list price of these Victron Units (list euro ex vat)
Multiplus 3Kw 2180,- Multipus 5Kw 2907,-Quatro 3Kw 2456,-Quatro 5Kw 3198,-
Remote panel for multiplus or quatro : 133,- Battery monitor including 500Amp shunt : 139,-
If someone interested I have a few used 24V Multiplus 3Kw units available for sale, at 500 euro pp. We also have a at least one used 12V 3Kw unit iirc.

 

[MapisM]

I'll post a chematic diagram later.

Many thanks in advance B, I appreciate.
Thanks also for all the other details, vv interesting stuff, well worth a thought.

Btw, I didn't notice before your previous comment on the a/p.
More than glad to come and see your new cruising grounds, with the excuse of fine tuning the a/p...
True friendship requires some sacrifices, after all!

Oh, and goes without saying that you and E are always welcome to come back to S Sardinia.
There are still a lot of nice spots which you had not seen during your diving week....
....not to mention dishes which you haven't tried yet!
Incidentally, I could also use your experience in checking my electrical setup, in view of a possible Victron installation.