bloody brokers

[jonjo]

Re: Client money

Not all client accounts offer protection in the event of the broker becoming insolvent. A proper client account is more expensive to operate but I forget the legal distinction that identifies a proper client monies account.

 

[Birdseye]

Re: Client money

I've bought both my previous boats privately and sold them that way too. So I have no personal experience of completing a transaction through a broker. But I wouldnt dream of leaving the inventory to the broker / previous owner. Thats a job for the buyer to make sure that what hw sees when viewing the boat and what he has been promissed is what turns up. The broker acts for the seller not the buyer.

Mind you, I bet that if you asked a dozen brokers you would get some really choice stories about dishonest cheating sellers!

 

[Guest]

The whole Vendor/broker/surveyor/purchaser process is a nightmare.

I am usually against regulation, but something needs to be done.

Vendor.

Provides an inventory to the broker, hiding any known problems, and has often just 'walked away' from ther boat, leaving it scruffy, dirty and possibly dangerous. Including used nappies.

Broker,

Treads a path between pricing for quick sale, or trying to give the vendor what they expect.
Uses the vendors list as 'inventory only' i.e. the vhf on the list, maybe it works, maybe it does not.
Checks out the details in some catalogue or other, quotes dimensions, but does not check many.

Brokers also have a special tape measure for headroom. It starts at 5"

Surveyor.

Of necessity they are generalists. The AWB 33 that he is surveying for you is the first he has ever seen, and he does not know that they have an endemic problem with port side chainplates.
He does not go up the mast, check the gas system, as he would have to be Corgi with lpg/marine endorsment or run the engine.
He is happy that shroud pins are held with rings not split pins.etc. etc.

Purchaser.

Sad case, he now has a picture of his boat in his wallet, where his money used to be

 

[oldharry]

Poter, it was back in the late 70s, and I really cannot remember the name of the crim.. er guy who involved. In any case the marina closed the broker down, and kicked him off their premises, which seemed to me a very satisfactory conclusion!

Just hope he did not set up business elsewhere....

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Update:

The broker has today called me. They are producing a proper inventory that I have been promised by Wednesday. They are meeting with the current owner on Tuesday to document everything in more detail. They now also have the paperwork, which apparently includes a document from Customs and Excise that declares no VAT payable on the vessel.... called a SAD form... mean anything to anyone?

 

[BrendanS]

according to the Customs and Excise website, SAD is "Single Administrative Document for the exportation and importation of goods"

here

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Brendan,

Further digging reveals it to be a document that proves VAT has been paid at the time of import in order to allow it to be released by customs...

 

[ShipsWoofy]

[ QUOTE ]
They now also have the paperwork, which apparently includes a document from Customs and Excise that declares no VAT payable on the vessel.... called a SAD form... mean anything to anyone?


[/ QUOTE ]

Is that a new document? i.e. one they have just produced upon request. I am looking to sail away and have virtually no documentation. The boat was built in '77 so is VAT exempt, but I would much rather have a document to fend off any EU C&E who wanted to argue the toss.

Would you mind asking the broker what proceedure is required for this form. I do not even have a HIN and the company who built her has long since dissapeared.

I do have an old SSR blue book which pre dates the cut off (92 wannit) where she had to be in the EU.

 

[BrendanS]

See post before by NAS. The SAD document appears to be for import and export only. It also seems from Google search that it is univeral in many countries.

 

[DepSol]

Am on my YBDSA course tomorrow and Tuesday and wil be opening in 2 weeks. Certainly dont charge 8% and also dont charge VAT either. Plus my check list makes sure all the items are in place for a sale before listing as wel as decent photographs and honest opinions so nobody wastes there time and mine.

Dom

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Dom,

Thats good to hear.

My experience to date is that, with a few exceptions, brokers just don't seem to give a damn..... and only do any real work when some 'pain in the arse' buyer demands a proper inventory or evidence of ownership etc etc. I suspect they survive on the poor innocent few who don't even think to ask for a VAT receipt or who assume that because there was a GPS on board when they viewed the boat, then its included in the sale.....

 

[paulskent]

Well in the name and (not) shame stakes I can only comment on my recent experiences with Brokers in the North Wales area.

I dealt with the 3 different offices.

Network Yacht Brokers in Conway.. Very helpful although they were going to sell me a new SO35 which I would have bought if I had not come across my final selection. Not sure if this counts as brokerage. Took me out on a very enjoyable test sail. Nice people to deal with.

Dickies (Bangor) Put me on their database and emailed me once. To "busy" to be really interested in me. When I asked to look at one boat they gave me the keys to go and have a look myself. The Boat was on the hard. Didn't look like it had been touched for weeks. When I took the keys back to the office the chap there didn't even ask my views.

Dickies (Pwllheli). Fantastic service, really helpful. Listened to what I wanted. Called me when the most appropriate boat became available. Put me in touch with the seller when I wanted to ask any questions that they couldn't answer. They sold the boat when it was new so they seem to be in process of building a regular client base. Helped me with the delivery process. Looked after the boat for the 2 weeks whilst it was taking up one of their berths after completion. (no charge).

I would also add that the discussions with the previous owner (Thanks Brian if you are reading this) have helped me enormously and I would recommend this step for anyone buying through a broker.

PK.

 

[LeonF]

Lets name the one's who are any good. I have always been pleased with Clarke and Carter at Burnham, both when looking to buy a boat, and when selling my Sigma. Within minutes of it getting on their website I had a call saying they had someone keen to view the next day, as I was off to Thailand for a holiday the day after. They viewed, offered , we negotiated via text messages, and did the deal while still on holiday. Increased my consumption of cocktails!! They also sold a chum's Stella when others had stalled.
Bought a boat from Louise at Opal in Chichester, she couldn't have been more efficient or helpful. However even the big chains can vary from office to office. Dare I name the unhelpful ones ??? In their defence a surveyor pointed out to me that they see endless unrealistic dreamers, and an emphatic statement saying what you are looking for, proving your financial viability may produce a better reaction.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Leon,

I too have had good experience with Clarke and Carter as a buyer.. a whole load more professional than many.... unfortunately they didn't have a boat that fitted my needs.... but they get my vote as a reliable and professional broker...

 

[smee]

[ QUOTE ]
I've done my own conveyancing and worked in sales and have thought in the past of setting up a brokerage...but it means working weekends.


[/ QUOTE ]

And being tarred with the same brush as all the incompetants, even if you happen to be the most perfectionist broker in the land - in other words its just not worth it!! Given the number of brokers names who appear and disappear with clockwork regularity in the ads pages of the magazines it is also clear it isn't a money for old rope job... many fail with large debts!

 

[smee]

Hope you do well.... but it won't be a walk in the park!