Blakes seacocks, ONLY Blakes!

[FairweatherDave]

Somewhat rashly I decided to follow Lavac's advice and detach the heads inlet and outlet pipes to my 37 year old Blakes seacocks. This is order to drain down the pipework. This is while afloat. It was then I discovered my seacocks don't close fully....:disgust:.... So what has been keeping my boat afloat has been sound pipework with a section well above the water line. So I reconnected the pipework. I would add that at the start of the season I serviced the seacocks with Blakes grease and the levers both moved nicely.
I have read here
1. At least one person found their lever had to be at something like 100 degrees to fully close (this is a possibility I could investigate further) but really?? surely 90 degrees to close. Any comments?
2. Some people (a small number) have serviced their Blakes seacocks while afloat. I am thinking I could do a quick dollop of grease on the cone whilst using a bung as a short term measure (In much the same way as you remove the log wheel for cleaning and put a blanking plate). I would leave the grinding paste more serious service until I was dried out or ashore. I would like my seacock to be properly closed. Is it likely a good dollop of grease would help. (I have read that the heads outlet seacock is particularly prove to pitting).

It seems to me that most people service seacocks ashore but then don't test them as they have got tricky pipes to remove and the consequences could be serious, so it is the success of the pipework that could be keeping a lot of people afloat. ( I have read about people pressure testing from the inside with hosepipes?)
Apologies for bumbling through this subject but this is the first time I have had to think hard about my Blakes.
Any comments welcome.
The short version of the question is is it reckless to service a Blakes seacock whilst afloat and is a good dollop of grease likely to sove the water ingress?

 

[prv]

The lever fits on the top at a choice of angles - the important thing is the arrow cast into the top of the cone which points in the same direction as the hole beneath it. The valve is open when the arrow is pointing at the hose tail, closed when the arrow is pointing away.

How easily does the cone move at the moment? Can you tighten down the top plate a bit without making it too stiff?

Pete

 

[andygc]

Blakes seacocks turn through 180 degrees from fully closed to fully open.

 

[FairweatherDave]

The lever fits on the top at a choice of angles -
Pete

Aha! Will see if I can see the arrow tomorrow. I did not spot it today, just worked on the 90 degree principle.
I did tighten the plate up a bit and it made no difference to the ingress, just hard to move the lever so I will need to slacken it off before it seizes.

 

[FairweatherDave]

Blakes seacocks turn through 180 degrees from fully closed to fully open.

If that's true for my Blakes I will be very happy! I did a little playing but my brain went to jelly when the water started coming in and I went for the bungs first off.

 

[pvb]

Blakes seacocks turn through 180 degrees from fully closed to fully open.

Newer ones don't - they have a pin on the top plate which stops the handle, giving positive on/off positions.

 

[brianhumber]

The Human body expels lots of chemical compounds in liquid and slop format which can and do settle as solids on pipes and valve bodies.

Not unusual to find pipes with considerably smaller diameter than original and Blakes cones can suffer from 'fur' build up as well. If the cock as not been shut in accordance with the arrow then mine at least have given problems in the past not fully shutting as a result. This is easily fixed afloat you just take the top retaining cover off pull out the cone with handle and put a soft taper bung in. Descale your cone then chemically or mechanically at leisure. Be ready when taking preparing to put the cone back to feel around the body after taking the soft plug out inside with a finger for scale build up on the body. Any way put back cone with grease and plan your further course of action during next lift out as required. The cone can rotate 360 if you have room for the handle to turn or take the handle off and check with adjustable spanner on the square.

I would suggest good practice to experiment doing this in port for the time when you need to do after some crew member bungs up the cone ports with kitchen towel or other types of towel half way across the channel. I learnt the hard way.

Brian

 

[FairweatherDave]

Thanks Brian..... I am starting to feel a sense of relief! All hail the forum!

 

[vyv_cox]

Marinechandlery.com refer to Blakes as 'the original quarter turn taper plug valve'. I must say I always turn mine to 180 degrees to ensure that the port is opposite the outlet.

 

[rob2]

The surface of the cone which spends most of its time exposed to seawater (when closed) can pit quite badly. On a friend's boat after grinding the cone, this area was still badly pitted - after all it was around thirty years old. we set up the handle on a different flat, allowing the cone to rotate the opposite direction and applied "open" and "closed" labels to the bulkhead nearby. That should give another thirty years, then.

Rob.

 

[FairweatherDave]

Marinechandlery.com refer to Blakes as 'the original quarter turn taper plug valve'. I must say I always turn mine to 180 degrees to ensure that the port is opposite the outlet.

Yes I saw that last night too. And what I have found out today is my blakes have writing on the keeper plate indicating the the on and off position. Amazing what a little wire brushing reveals. However the arrow on the handle of one of them was pretty much invisible (the other was clear). Anyhow the point is the hose tail on both prevents a full 180 from the on position, so I'd say my off position is about 155 either side.
Also I went for it and did a floating application of grease to the cone. Exciting but all went according to plan. Probably had to mop up 3 or 4 pints of sea water max.
So thanks all, I started yesterday SO convinced 90 degrees was off! Didn't help that the hard to read keeper plate was on upside down too!

 

[Spirit of Glenans]

Aha! Will see if I can see the arrow tomorrow. I did not spot it today, just worked on the 90 degree principle.
I did tighten the plate up a bit and it made no difference to the ingress, just hard to move the lever so I will need to slacken it off before it seizes.

The hole in the cone is quite big so it is advisable to get well past the 90 degree position to be absolutely sure.
Re tightening down; if you apply the waterproof grease liberally and tighten down less than fully tight, you will leave a good thickness of grease between the cone and the body, allowing easy turning. You will need to check it during the season and if it begins to let in water tighten it down a little. With luck, your application of grease should last until the next lift-out.
With regard to your question as to whether you can do it while afloat, I can tell you that the skin-fitting on the head outwards seacock on my own boat currently leaks somewhat (about 5litres per hour) while on starboard tack but less than a litre a month while moored alongside, as the outlet is so close to the surface. So, if you can heel your boat either with weight on the opposite rail, or by securing a halyard to the next pontoon along, or to a neighbouring boat or whatever, and winching in, you can raise the outlet so that it is very close to, or just clear of the surface, you can certainly create the conditions for doing so.

 

[Boo2]

Also I went for it and did a floating application of grease to the cone. Exciting but all went according to plan. Probably had to mop up 3 or 4 pints of sea water max.

So how did you go about this ? Did you take the hose off and apply the grease down the valve hosetail ? Or did you take the cone out and put a bung in while you greased it ?

Boo2

 

[FairweatherDave]

So how did you go about this ? Did you take the hose off and apply the grease down the valve hosetail ? Or did you take the cone out and put a bung in while you greased it ?

Boo2

Option 2, cone out and bung in..... It really was easy. I wasn't complacent and had a range of bungs and I rehearsed the job very carefully. The detail is important, my seacock was moving quite freely, it was not seized. Undoing the keeper plate was easy as it had been serviced at the start of the season and should not be tight. The cone continued to sit there until I applied a little tug and out it popped. With the bung in I was happy to give the cone a bit of a clean up and go to my tool box at the other end of the boat to get some emery cloth. I put a load of Blakes grease on but wish I had put even more on. If I was Spirit of Glennans I might be inclined to go for it. I can do a more relaxed job and use the grinding paste when I am dried out on the beach. Out at sea I think I would wait until at home and in the meantime go "bucket and chuck it". It does go against the grain to pull the plug on your pride and joy. It does focus the mind.

PS The frustrating part of the job was not being able to get the heads out pipe fully back on the "hose tail" of the seacock. Only enough for one clip, this despite a lot of hair dryer. I was wary that too much force is a dangerous thing but I did use a fair bit. I decided that job can wait until the summer when I have had more ideas about how to make the job easier, and the materials are naturally warmer/ softer.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Blakes seacocks turn through 180 degrees from fully closed to fully open.

Perhaps, but on the ones I had the pipe fouled the handle at about 120^o from "fully open", so that was your lot.

 

[vyv_cox]

Perhaps, but on the ones I had the pipe fouled the handle at about 120^o from "fully open", so that was your lot.

Yes, my 180 degrees in post#9 was an exaggeration, probably only 160 degrees in one direction at best.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Yes, my 180 degrees in post#9 was an exaggeration, probably only 160 degrees in one direction at best.

On reflection ... my old ones (1976 vintage) had the 'andle hopposite the 'ole, so they were hopen when the 'andle was haimed at the 'ose. Perhaps it's now possible to fit the 'andle at right hangles to the 'ole, in which case a full 180^o would be possible.

 

[rob2]

The only real complaint I have against Blakes seacocks is that the thread for the nuts holding the keeper plate really need to be a MUCH finer thread. You get them nicely adjusted, tap the locking washer tabs into place and then nothing will move.

If not regularly maintained, the cone can seize in place and can be a devil to get out. A long soak with releasing oil can help, but then it can also seem to add surface tension. I have resorted to a hardwood drift and (throttled) sledgehammer to whack one out. The old ones (better material) can be serviced and remain in service longer than you ever expect the hull to last, though the addition of the grease nipple on the later ones is a useful improvement.

Rob.

 

[Tricia]

When we bought our boat 20 odd years ago one of the first things we did was replace the inlet and outlet on the toilet
(which we also changed to a Lavac) and also on the sink

Over the course of the years we've had a series of leaks which invariably got stopped by an application of grease and a judicious tightening. Still have the Blakes on the toilet inlet and outlet and the sink inlet but ended up keeping the body of the sink outlet but blanking off the cone area and sticking a Marelon valve in line with the sink. We'll see how long that lasts. What you have to remember is, every time you do the washing up and use detergent, it is destroying the grease in the sea cock. It seems more harsh than the chemicals the human body produces and the chemicals in various toilet cleaners, to the extent that even after grinding with valve paste the cone couldn't make a seal on the sink outlet. This made the sink flood on a port tack.

I would also recommend you buy a grease gun with a flexible pipe as, invariably, the grease nipple ends up in-accessable.

Tricia

 

[FairweatherDave]

The only real complaint I have against Blakes seacocks is that the thread for the nuts holding the keeper plate really need to be a MUCH finer thread. You get them nicely adjusted, tap the locking washer tabs into place and then nothing will move.
Rob.

Yep. Agree with that. Several attempts to get the keeper plate just right (hence my comment I wish I had applied even more grease). My setting is definitely more than the recommended one finger to move it........

PS Tricia,unfortunately my Blakes don't have the grease nipple.