Bl**dy VAT again sorry?

[fireball]

Technically correct ...

When you pay someone (usually a company but not always) a price INCLUSIVE of VAT then the VAT element is paid to the government.
If "you" are VAT registered and the object can have VAT reclaimed on it then you can reclaim the VAT element from the purchase invoice (ie the VAT you paid to the vendor who passed it to the government)

The "original VAT Invoice" just shows that the manufacturer charged VAT on the sale of the original boat. VAT was charged on that boat and paid over - but doesn't prove that it wasn't reclaimed.

 

[Gludy]

[ QUOTE ]
From that little arguement that you all ended up agreeing it seems that the most important invoice to keep would be the invoiced raised to the first non-VAT registered owner - up to this point everyone paid VAT and everyone reclaimed it.


[/ QUOTE ]

That is ttoally logical but i do not think the Customs etc in France etc see it that way!!! In fact of course an orginal invoice is not proof that any VAT has been collected just that a vat invoice was siisued.

My guess is that only the original VAT invoice matters regardless of any logic.

 

[DAKA]

The original VAT invoice wouldnt be as relevant as the last purchase invoice if bought from a VAT reg company by a private individual.

As an individual buying from a vat reg company who own the boat you can reasonably expect that the company has charged you the correct vat and that they have paid the vat over.

It would be best to have a Vat invoice and receipt showing the amount of vat included in the purchase price but this is not essential.

It would also be wise to check the company you are buying from has a proper vat no.
in the uk you can phone 0845 7143 143 to check and hopefully they can advice on EU companies or direct you to the correct place.

What has happened in the boats history is not your concern as long as you pay vat at the correct rate now and retain your proof.*

*In brief if you are on a boat in Eu waters where vat has not been paid you are due to pay vat on the current market value
ie/ the price you have just paid. hence the amount due is the same as you have just paid.





I looked into this several years ago and spoke at length to the Authorities

I also kept along with my Company invoice
several adverts of similar boats to prove market value

 

[RobWales]

Daka

So the situation as it stands is this.............
Boat was supplied brand new from the US manufacturer to its German customer via the recognised Franchise in Germany.

After a cpl of years the boat was then moved to Hungary by its original owner,cpl of years again pass and then the boat gets sold to its now second owner, He's Hungarian.

He has an eng co,he wants to sell me the boat,he will supply me an invoice stating that 20% of my 50k purchase price is Hungarian tax/vat and he tells me that his co will forward that 20% to the correct authorites.

So my shipper has in is hand a vat paid in EU invoice when he brings the boat back into the UK.

Will this scenario see me OK and not liable for any other costs?

Thanks
Rob

What a minefield this is eh!

 

[DAKA]

A) check his company is a legitimate VAT reg company
B) keep similar adds you have been looking at anyway to show you have paid market price ish

This is how to be protected in the UK, if you cant afford to loose your toy then speak to C&E (you need to check his vat reg no. anyway).



edit

just as a thought, if you import it duty free ie/ 50 000 less 20%, ask the uk C&E if you can pay UK 17.5 % which may help towards the transport costs ?

 

[RobWales]

Good thinking Batman!

Thanks for the advice so far guys.

 

[ontheplane]

As DAKA Says, see if you can import it VAT free and then pay the VAT on Entry.

That way you will have a full VAT invoice showing that you have paid the duty, it may also save you the VAT etc on shipping.

However make sure the seller is legally allowed to sell it that way.

It sounds a nightmare!

 

[peterb26]

I hadnt appreciated that the boat is coming back to the UK., I had assumed it was heading for another EU country in the Med. Apologies.

In fact, the advice above to buy it at zero vat and then pay the VAT at 17.5% when you get it to the UK is totally correct. Under no circumstances should you pay VAT out in Hungary and then expect to get the boat back into the UK as a VAT paid boat.

This presumes that you are a UK resident and pay tax in the UK as this is the critical factor - but I presume you are?

The invoice to you from the hungarian company must include the fact that the boat is not new, and show engine hours run. It must also show the date that the boat was first launched in its home country to prove it is not new. If the boat is registered in Hungary then the date it was first registered and the registration number will also help on the invoice.

In the situation you are in, UK VAT will be due on that boat as you are a UK resident and you are importing it. Even if the hungarian company charged you VAT and you paid it - the UK VAT man could quote EEC directives 77/388/CEE and also 91/680/CEE and tell you to pay the FULL vat again.

It would then be up to you to reclaim the VAT you erroneously paid to the Hungarian company........ Not a nice thought.

 

[Nick_H]

Well something sounds dodgy 'cos there's nowhere in Hungary to use a motor boat as it has no sea border, and Balaton is sailing boats only and strictly enforced.

 

[Hurricane]

The_Ancient_Mariner
Are you sure about all you say?
Doesnt make sense to me.

Rob
One final point from me.
If you are going to pay this company for a boat upon which they are going to charge you VAT (which all sounds correct to me) one firther thing that might be worth checking is - does the company actually have title (own) the boat that it is about to sell you.

Mike

 

[Nick_H]

Actually, thinking about it he could keep it on the Danube, i've heard some nutcases do like using proper boats on rivers /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[peterb26]

Hurricane - I'm 20 grand sure - I did exactly what Rob is doing and thats what it cost me!

It all stems on the fact that Rob is British and importing it back to his home in the UK given that VAT has not (yet) been paid.

Hence the UK VAT man will DEMAND his 17.5% of the VAT when it ends up in his country under the ownership of Rob, his fellow countryman.

You cant pay the VAT in the foreign country and say "That counts now I'm bringing it back as a tax paid boat".

 

[RobWales]

[ QUOTE ]
Well something sounds dodgy 'cos there's nowhere in Hungary to use a motor boat as it has no sea border, and Balaton is sailing boats only and strictly enforced.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm assured its been used for cruising the Danube! Makes sense as the boat is in Budapest,also the owner has welcomed my wife and I for a flying weekend break to view the said boat and he will also show us around the city.

Interesting to read the conflicting ideas though.!

 

[capnjack]

Doesn't paying VAT to our HMRC depend on where the boats Country of Origin is? In this case it was imported into Germany new, therefore is not that its country of origin and therefore where any VAT is liable from new? In addition will he not be importing the boat into the UK therefore being liable for any VAT to the exporting country rather than the UK?

If the boats country of origin was the UK and she was exported thus void of VAT and then returned, if the VAT was not paid then the HMRC will want their pound of flesh.

Is this not correct or am I barking up the wrong tree as per normal? /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

 

[fireball]

Erm - I believe we have agreement that items are imported into the EU and as long as VAT is paid within an EU country then you do not have to pay VAT in subsequent EU countries that you "import" the item into ... there are probably exceptions though.

Hungary has been in the EU since 2004 - I would assume this qualifies it for the VAT status as well....

 

[fireball]

Hey - you can validate the VAT number here: http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/en/vieshome.htm

 

[fireball]

Extracted from: http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/index_en.htm

[ QUOTE ]
VAT on imports and exports

For the purpose of exports between the Community and non-member countries, no VAT is charged on the transaction and the VAT already paid on the inputs of the good for export is deducted - this is an exemption with the right to deduct the input VAT, sometimes called 'zero-rating'. There is thus no residual VAT contained in the export price.

However, as far as imports are concerned, VAT must be paid at the moment the goods are imported so they are immediately placed on the same footing as equivalent goods produced in the Community. Taxable people registered for VAT will be allowed to deduct this VAT in their next VAT return.
VAT on goods moving between Member States

No frontier controls exist between Member States and therefore VAT on goods traded between EU Member States is not collected at the internal frontier between tax jurisdictions.

Goods supplied between taxable persons (or VAT registered traders) are exempted with a right to deduct the input VAT (zero-rated) on despatch if they are sent to another Member States to a person who can give his VAT number in another Member State. This is known as an "intra-Community supply". The VAT number can be checked using the VAT Information Exchange System (VIES).

The VAT due on the transaction is payable on acquisition of the goods by the taxable customer in the Member State where the goods arrive. This is known as "intra-Community acquisition". The customer accounts for any VAT due in his normal VAT return at the rate in force in the country of destination.

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[fireball]

Hey - Trebble post score!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[capnjack]

Congratulation on your treble post score and also for your spelling, it's almost as good as mine.

May I just point out that your post addressed to me with...........
[ QUOTE ]
Erm - I believe we have agreement that items are imported into the EU and as long as VAT is paid within an EU country then you do not have to pay VAT in subsequent EU countries that you "import" the item into

[/ QUOTE ]
Does not take into account that I was politely replying to The Ancient Mariners post which contained this......
[ QUOTE ]
You cant pay the VAT in the foreign country and say "That counts now I'm bringing it back as a tax paid boat".

[/ QUOTE ]

This is where I normally get into trouble. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[rickp]

You need to take into account the New Means of Transport rules (dug up from Google's cache, as the HMRC server is down it seems).

Rick