Biscay trip communications?

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newboater

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Going accross the bay of Biscay this June/July, we have gmdss/radar/navtex and the safety necessaries, however we will probably be out of range by radio for a couple of days or so,can anyone advise on the cheapest communications so that if something does go wrong we can contact rescue services, we are aware of the obvious( if you need help it is worth every penny at the time) remarks, but for one trip we need communications.
Satellite `phones are several hundred pounds and epirbs are also, is there another way? any help is much appreciated.Thanks.

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Not communications equipment, but I would not venture out of VHF range without an EPIRB. I know Columbus didn't have one, but better safe than sorry.

An Iridium satphone would be the simplest thing to get (not qualifications required to operate one).

I'd say bottom line you're looking at £1,200-£1,300. But you could always have a look on eBay.

<hr width=100% size=1>Experience is a good teacher, but she sends in terrific bills.
 
An 121.5MHz EPIRB would be the cheapest option, plus of course flares. A 406MHz EPIRB is next up, costs three times as much though. You will be out of range of cell-phone, but another possible option as well as satellite phone is an SSB radio (requires qualification and licence).

Far from encouraging an "if you need help it is worth every penny" attitude, I would suggest you do not get overly preoccupied about being able to "contact rescue services if something goes wrong". Either the yacht and crew are up to it, or they aren't. It would be irresponsible to go in the latter case.



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i agree with andrew b- epirb is a good idea. however although you nwillnot be able to contact shore based stations for perhaps 48 hours there will be plenty of shipping around you even if not visible.your digitaql radio when set in alarm mode[sos] is supposed to have a range in exces of the usual 20 miles max- up to 50miles.i doubt if you will have problems being heard. important thing is to have the experience and experiencecd crew to avoid trouble.

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If pennies are tight, then a reconditioned EPIRB might be the answer, although this link may also provide access to a rental EPIRB <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.sartech.co.uk/products_info.asp?g={A2596752-B99B-463A-BC61-C754119B67CC}&boolsubmit=true&intq=1&strLevel1=epirbs&strLevel2=epirbsreconditioned>here</A>.
You probably do not have the time to qualify for SSB, plus this is an expensive option for a one-off trip (at least £1500 even second/hand)
Hiring an Iridium phone is a possibility, but I would settle for an EPIRB for this voyage.

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Hi,

You can rent a satellite phone direct from Vodafone for about £45 a week. If you have a Vodafone SIM card on contract then you can use this in the phone and you will just be charged for the calls at about £1-1.5 a minute.

As for making sure your crew is up to it, that goes without saying. But it is actually very responsible getting a phone as rescue services could spend a lot of time searching for you if you don't turn up when you expected to. At least of you can contact people to let them know if you are delayed or if you have a problem which you can deal with yourself. You can also contact your family to let them know how things are going so they don't spark a search because they can't reach you.

I think it shows good planning myself and although self reliance is the best thing, back up technology can't hurt and does add an extra dimension of safety.

Andy



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the only options are 406 epirb, ssb or sat phone.

i think you will be able to rent an epirb if you don't fancy buying. call a couple of liferaft hire places.

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Firstly let me say that I don't approve of the attitude that you must be able to contact the rescue services . . . if you can't take a genuine risk then maybe you shouldn't go.

Secondly . . . having crossed Biscay myself (as crew) on a yacht with no Epirb, radar, GMDSS or Navtex . . . I found this enhanced the experience and made it real.

Having got that off my chest however . . . if you follow the direct route Ushant - Finisterre and stay parallel to the shipping lanes you will pretty much be guaranteed line of sight VHF communications with passing shipping most of the time - it's a busy route.

- Nick

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having crossed Biscay myself (as crew) on a yacht with no Epirb, radar, GMDSS or Navtex . . . I found this enhanced the experience and made it real.

After over 20 years at sea I must say that I find this attitude very irresponsable. When I sail, I sail with the wife & 2 kids as crew. I have evey interest in doing whatever I can to ensure the safety of my nearest and dearest. I don't have to prove anything, I know how big my balls are, I know what's real. I too get an adrenaline kick when I manage to get us safely through a 9Bft gale - but that doesn't mean I go looking for them.


<hr width=100% size=1>Experience is a good teacher, but she sends in terrific bills.
 
Re: Irresponsibility

Many great and inspiring trips have been made on small budgets by people with very minimal levels of safety equipment. That isn't irresponsible. Responsibility means taking responsibility for your own life, not expecting others to risk their lives to save your skin when things go wrong.

What we have seen is the increasing willingness of yachtsmen in a bit of bother to pull a string or push a button and expect to be pulled out of a situation they have put themselves into by choice. The cost of this and the ensuing negative publicity and rising insurance costs are helping the drive towards legislation. I don't mind anyone having the means to shout for help so long as they are really in extremis before they do so . . . just being scared isn't good enough though.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating 'drowning like a gentleman' (was that Blondie Haslar?) - it's just that I don't regard an EPIRB, Satphone, SSB or radar as necessities for voyaging out of sight of land, although they are a comfort if you can afford them. But to not go because you don't have them - that is irresponsible in terms of wasted opportunities, and any attempt to enforce these requirements on others either legislatively or through moral blackmail should be resisted.

- Nick







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I did the trip a couple of years ago and took the decision to buy Iridium sat phone instead of an epirb. There's arguments for and against each (and both is probably the best option). But I was able to call home with updates - precious cargo included 16year old daughter and slightly concerned missus was very relieved to hear news. Kept phone in waterproof bag, inside grab bag. Sat phones no longer hugely expensive and pay as you go options and short term rentals make it within reasonable cost. Shipping forecast is obtainable most of the way down to Finnestere on LW. Also, commercial shipping will relay a forecast to you if it's all quiet (ie middle of night) and you ask them nicely in case you miss the forecast.

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Re: Irresponsibility

Sadly this attitude probably puts as many lives at risk as calling for help when not entirely necessary. A huge amount of resources are wasted looking for people who appear to have gone missing.

Having the equipment is responsible not just for yourself but also for those tasked to find you in the event of an incident. With an EPIRB they have a much better chance of finding you, saving valuable time and minimising time spent in a potetially dangerous search pattern.

The trouble is that even though you don't seem to care about added risk, the rescue services and other mariners don't have the luxury of taking that decision if you get into trouble.


Andy

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Re: Irresponsibility

IMHO you are speaking nonsense. I would be interested to hear (maritime) examples of a 'huge amount of resources' being 'wasted looking for people who appear to have gone missing'

At sea rescue services are not mobilised unless someone calls them out, or 'tasks' them to use your rather arcane expression.

In the past yachts that were overdue remained overdue until they turned up or it was obvious they weren't coming back. That is still essentially the case for small vessels sans long range communication engaged on ocean passages - and long may it remain so. NO doubt you would have these irresponsible adventurers arrested and their boats confiscated when they made landfall.

I carry a VHF and will happily call out the RNLI in extremis, but do not expect a Bullimore-type rescue if I choose to cross a large ocean in a small boat. If I set off across the pond with no LR comms and don't arrive I do not believe any air force will be flying search patterns randomly in mid-Atlantic. It would be nice if shipping is asked to keep an eye out for me, but that is really as much as I would expect and as much as would in practice happen.

- Nick

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Re: Irresponsibility

Hi,

You are entitled to your opinion of course, but huge resources are wasted on call out's. The point I was making was that the decision to spend resources searching for you is taken away from you in some cases. For example you mention that you carry a VHF to alert shipping. For example if you sent a radio message to all shipping stating you had a problem, and they could then not reach you by VHF, the call could be relayed to the emergency services and in all likelyhood a search would be instigated. If you were able and suitably equipped you could instead use a long range form of communication to contact somebody. You don't have to be mid atlantic to be out of normal comms range.

I don't believe I mentioned arresting people for not having long range communications and quite honestly I am surprised by your negative attitude to anything which can enhance the safety of you and those around you. You might not expect a Bullimore style rescue, but you may not have the choice to stop it. You asked for an example and here is one which is a case in point, fortunately he got back just before the search was about to be started. If he had long range comms, then it would have been easy to stop this. It is not just SAR resources which are wasted but also those of the coastal stations having to send out messages to look for overdue boats. Also if the SAR are called out to one incident they are not available for another perhaps more serious incident. I am not saying you should have all the kit, but if you can and it is available then IT IS responsible to have it.

The following is from a resport by the Bermuda Marine Incident Reports and there are many like then every day:

Wednesday 12th 9:00 pm A telephone call was received from a member of the public reporting his friend overdue from a fishing trip in the Great Sound. The fisherman usually returned to shore by 6pm and his wife was now becoming concerned. The boat is a 21ft power craft with two persons on board. Harbour Radio attempted radio communications with the vessel, "Jah Bless Shatiff Jr" throughout the night on numerous vhf channels with no success. Lookouts were made from shore locations with nothing sighted. A daylight search was being prepared when the fisherman returned home safely at 5:30am having stayed out fishing longer than planned. Advice was given to the gentleman about keeping someone ashore or Harbour Radio updated in the event of a change to normal activities so that family do not needlessly worry and SAR time and resources are not wasted.

Think about it.

Andy

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by broadcaster on 06/04/2004 11:28 (server time).</FONT></P>
 
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