Biscay 36 vs. Tradewind 35

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To follow my beloved Sadler 32 I am minded to go for a (more) ocean capable boat and the two that I seem to keep coming down to are those mentioned above.

Despite all but identical hull shapes the Tradewind weighs in almost 2T more than the Biscay albeit with a commensurate increase in sail area (assuming the conventional rigs)

Both have tragic waterline lengths and are thus speed restricted.

Anyone able to compare the virtues of these two? Virtues such as domestic, practical, seakeeping, economic? What is there to choose between them?

I imagine bugger-all but the small diferences people who know would be illuminating.
 
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Prasutigus

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Greetings, I was looking at a Biscay 36 ketch, and Tradewinds, about 4 yrs ago, choice is limited as not many of either type on the market, within travelling distance.
You're obviously open-minded about the number of masts.. one thing I would suggest is sitting, standing and generally clambering around the cockpit of a Biscay 36, the ergonomics are... different. There are one or two owners and exes on the forum I believe, including the illustrious Paul Heiney who took one to Patagonia, or somewhere down that way.

I looked at one or two Saltrams, 36 and 40 as well, longer on the W/L for the LOA as I remember, cutter rigs but again a bit thin on the ground. Nice boats though. There was a clean 40 in the Barbican which went for about 40k, great value.
It's good to be open minded, I should know..I eventually ended up with a gaff cutter..
 
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alant

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Greetings, I was looking at a Biscay 36 ketch, and Tradewinds, about 4 yrs ago, choice is limited as not many of either type on the market, within travelling distance.
You're obviously open-minded about the number of masts.. one thing I would suggest is sitting, standing and generally clambering around the cockpit of a Biscay 36, the ergonomics are... different. There are one or two owners and exes on the forum I believe, including the illustrious Paul Heiney who took one to Patagonia, or somewhere down that way.

I looked at one or two Saltrams, 36 and 40 as well, longer on the W/L for the LOA as I remember, cutter rigs but again a bit thin on the ground. Nice boats though. There was a clean 40 in the Barbican which went for about 40k, great value.
It's good to be open minded, I should know..I eventually ended up with a gaff cutter..

You might like this https://www.michaelschmidt.co.uk/boatdetails.asp?boatid=6308144
 

robmcg

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Either will be very different from your current Sadler. The main difences between the Biscay and Tradewind will be in the layout down below so the trick is to find which works best for you. There are several variations in layout of the Tradewinds which can make a big difference to the inside. Either boat will give you safe cruising in comfort and will be easy to live with if you avoid tight marinas or have a bow thruster. Don't be too concerned about speed - neither boat is a plodder as some on here would have you think but neither are they speed machines - obvious from their design. We have a TW35 so any specific questions you have about them, just ask on here.
 

Goldie

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Hi there, an ex-owner here......

We owned what was then the last of the Biscays, launched in 1990, for 21 years and 40,000nm. I say 'then' as another one hit the water less than a year ago after many years in build to a very high standard. We sold reluctantly, and only then because of a health issue which made negotiating the companionway difficult for my wife. If you'd care to PM me with an email address I have some information I can send you about the Biscay but whilst I love the look of the Tradewinds, I've never sailed one and can't offer any first hand experiences on those. All I can say is that when our Biscay and a Tradewinds were heading in the same direction, the Biscay was always the faster boat. In fact, she was a bit of a wolf in sheep's clothing and had some Club racing success at various clubs and achieved some good passage times. Chichester to Troon in 3 days and 18 hours for example.

I suspect with either class, a lot will depend on the build standard, layout (the Biscay had several variations) and of course the current condition. If you have any specific questions on the Biscay 36, I'd be very happy to do my best to answer them.

Ian
 

tomfb630

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Hello all, I'm posting this a long time after previous posts but if anyone can share further info on the Biscay 36 or would be happy to chat on the phone I'd be grateful to hear from you. I am considering buying one of the cutter versions. Thanks. Tom
 

Beneteau381

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Hello all, I'm posting this a long time after previous posts but if anyone can share further info on the Biscay 36 or would be happy to chat on the phone I'd be grateful to hear from you. I am considering buying one of the cutter versions. Thanks. Tom
My mate in Albufeira has one for sale, newish engine, rigging etc. Its going fir a really competitive price! PM for more info.
 

Colum

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How did your Biscay 36 compare with Rustler 36 on speed? Was your Biscay a ketch?
Hi there, an ex-owner here......

We owned what was then the last of the Biscays, launched in 1990, for 21 years and 40,000nm. I say 'then' as another one hit the water less than a year ago after many years in build to a very high standard. We sold reluctantly, and only then because of a health issue which made negotiating the companionway difficult for my wife. If you'd care to PM me with an email address I have some information I can send you about the Biscay but whilst I love the look of the Tradewinds, I've never sailed one and can't offer any first hand experiences on those. All I can say is that when our Biscay and a Tradewinds were heading in the same direction, the Biscay was always the faster boat. In fact, she was a bit of a wolf in sheep's clothing and had some Club racing success at various clubs and achieved some good passage times. Chichester to Troon in 3 days and 18 hours for example.

I suspect with either class, a lot will depend on the build standard, layout (the Biscay had several variations) and of course the current condition. If you have any specific questions on the Biscay 36, I'd be very happy to do my best to answer them.

Ian
 

Goldie

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How did your Biscay 36 compare with Rustler 36 on speed? Was your Biscay a ketch?

We have friends who had a Rustler 36 at the time and most of the time, there was virtually nothing in it for speed. Off the wind though, my Biscay ketch had the advantage thanks to the mizzen staysail. You’re probably following the GGR but there are examples of both in the race, and a Biscay 36 is currently leading.
 

Colum

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Yes. If you were to do the GGR what boat would you select if all in equal condition.
Yes, a Biscay leading, but apparently a Rustler is gaining on the fleet after a delayed start.
I wondered about Simon Curwens choice, he selected a ketch and then removed the mizzen!!! Why choose a ketch and then remove the mizzen which is presumably it's advantage? I see Biscay 36 are offered as ketch or single mast. Is the mast position the same in both boat offerings? Is the mast larger if you chose without the mizzen when buying new? I am wondering is the total sail area the same in both offerings. I can only guess Simon removed the mizzen to reduce weight. If you were doing the GGR would you expect to be faster with the mizzen?
 

Goldie

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I wondered about Simon Curwens choice, he selected a ketch and then removed the mizzen!!! Why choose a ketch and then remove the mizzen which is presumably it's advantage?

Not my understanding. Having seen Clara around under two previous ownerships over the last 20 years, I can only recall her as a sloop. What has been done, is to convert her to a cutter and I believe, a tiller substituted in place of wheel steering - the latter for simplicity/reliability I suspect.

Having moored my ketch version alongside a sloop, from the quay there was no discernible inference in mast height. The deck moulding would appear to have been designed to accommodate a slight difference in mast positions but I can’t remember how much difference there actually was but not much I suspect as I don’t recall any difference below in the siting of the compression post.

Would it be faster with a mizzen? I don’t know but I do know that the mizzen staysail was a real turbo-charger. The big advantage for me would be redundancy in having a spare mast in case of the need to jury rig as the masts are completely independent, no triatic stay. In addition, the boat goes really well and is really well balanced with just headsail and mizzen.

Which I would choose is academic as I won’t be doing it and I’ve only got about 1000nm in the Rustler 36 (inc Biscay in December!) but 40 times that in the Biscay 36 so it wouldn’t be a fair comparison. FWIW I did find the tiller steered Rustler a bit heavy on the helm at times, cured by reducing sail earlier than I would have done otherwise.

Edit. I’ve just found the NHC Base list which rates the Biscay 36 at 0.887 and the Rustler 36 slightly quicker at 0.894.
 
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Colum

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Perhaps I misunderstood Simons boat preparation. I was under the impression he removed the mizzen.
Your reply as to which boat you would choose is unacceptable)) You have experience of sailing these types of boats and you can reply from the comfort of your armchair. No uhms or ahhs. If you were presssganged into doing the GGR what boat would you select. I guess you are familiar with the list of approved boats. And if you choose the Biscay would you go with a ketch?
 

Goldie

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Perhaps I misunderstood Simons boat preparation. I was under the impression he removed the mizzen.
Your reply as to which boat you would choose is unacceptable)) You have experience of sailing these types of boats and you can reply from the comfort of your armchair. No uhms or ahhs. If you were presssganged into doing the GGR what boat would you select. I guess you are familiar with the list of approved boats. And if you choose the Biscay would you go with a ketch?

It was an acceptable reply to me! In the absence of sufficient experience to make an informed decision for or against the Rustler, I’d go with what I know - the Biscay 36 ketch; but it would be a close call between the two classes (I certainly don’t know enough about the others). Having said that, I think I can see why Simon’s gone for a tiller and that’s not practical on the ketch.
 

Colum

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I hadn't thought of that. The mizzen would block the use of the tiller, yes? Let's both do the GGR in 4 years))
 
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